This is my first post here. 7man planted a seed and I have nurtured it – it was a fruitful union and this is what we have procreated.
Have you noticed that single women dress to attract, then when she gets married, she dresses to minimize? A married woman dressing as if she were single, going on girls’ nights out, is not generally looked upon well, even if the stigma appears less than in times gone by, and most married women intuit this.
What are attracts men is simple but seems complex because it is counter-intuitive. Often a woman showing too much skin gives off a vibe of selfishness. Such intentional dress is often intimidating to men; the better quality betas often do not have the confidence to approach – or they simply don’t know how to approach such a woman except perhaps to ask, “How much?” Of course the alpha guys will approach her, but the good guys will think twice more often than not.
The women overly concerned with modesty often have a body language that is not attractive. Their posture often is such that they hide their curves. This is body insecurity, which is not an attractive trait. Often these women have the walking gait of a man. But even those seemingly unconcerned with modesty do this – I see women all the time dressed to the nines but walking like a man, slightly hunched even, with legs apart instead of one foot in front of the other. In this case, the woman who is modestly dressed yet carries herself well is going to attract more attention than the one showing a lot of skin but who doesn’t know how to carry herself in a feminine way.
This is the middle way. Wearing clothes that do not reveal too much but walking with confidence: shoulders back, breasts out, standing tall. Walking like a woman, one foot in front of the other, which causes her hips to sway even without heels. How many times do you see women hunched over with her arms pulled forward or crossed to disguise her breasts? This is not attractive. Rather, good posture, smiling, not wearing a lot of makeup, shorter finger nails without obnoxious bright colors will likely cause the good men to notice and the alphas to hesitate in ‘using up’ such beauty. The peace and glow of a woman after prayer or a woman really striving toward God shows up in the way she carries herself. Cads often do have a code of conduct to not ruin such a woman. Furthermore, she is not easy and it would take a larger investment of his time than he typically is willing to give. So in this way, she can attract quality men without flaunting herself and still look good while at the same time protecting herself.
The middle way woman attracts a better quality man because that man sees all of her character, including her comfortable confidence in her sexuality, since she neither flaunts nor disguises. Sometimes this kind of woman will later change her style of dress to be like the woman concerned with modesty. That is disconcerting to her man. He wants to be proud of his wife and show her off a bit. If she does not want to be eye candy for him sometimes – and not just in private – this can lead to disinterest from him and insecurity in her, which causes their connection to become more distant and usually a woman reacts by holding on to him and pulling him back with her claws. Oh, if she would just draw him back with her wiles, by planting some irresistible private intimate images in his mind.
A better approach is for her to do the opposite of most women; when out with him, she can dress a bit more revealing; she can find out what he would like to see and do that for him. The attention of the world is on the two of them and the focus is more diffused. They will see her in context with him; he is there to protect her. When this is done right, she is noticed as a beautiful woman, and people look at him and think, “Lucky guy.” Men live for this feeling - it affirms his masculinity. The focus is no longer on her; it is redirected to him. She feels good, because he feels good and also because this makes her feel more attractive, thus increasing her confidence. She will pick up on the admiration others have for her man and delight that such a man is her man.
Emotions are contagious. In a relationship the two are often feeling the same things. It is good to remember this, because this is the way to fix things. Being willing to do things like this for your man encourages him to be open about what he wants from you, and the more you show yourself willing to please him, the more the positive emotions will overwhelm the negative ones. This isn’t to say you are a doormat, but that you show yourself willing to please. In the modern world, this will set you apart from the average woman, as will dressing nicely but not slutty and carrying yourself with poise and confidence.

the cottage child
September 18, 2011
*jumping up and down, clapping*
The right posture, the right undergarments (ahem), and the right walk all contribute to a woman’s presence. As I get older (and nature takes its course across my body) I have to remind myself that standing up straight and sauntering rather than race-walking everywhere are about the most alluring things I have going for me.
good posture, smiling, not wearing a lot of makeup, shorter finger nails without obnoxious bright colors
Yes, “personal style” has left good taste behind. Our dry cleaner is family owned, and the older teenage daughters run the counter. The nails, and the ink, and the belly shirts – ugh. If you engage them, they are sweet and friendly, and quite capable of interesting conversation, but they look like their vato loco boyfriends are about to pick them up for a night of bitch swapping. It’s beyond me how this can be okay with their parents. I guess if you’re going to inherit a three store chain of dry-cleaners, you don’t need personal goals?
Dressing for utility, be it as a slut or as a housekeeper, sends a strong message. Most men don’t want to be tethered to either.
Morticia
September 18, 2011
This reminds me of some of the stuff I have read on WWNH.
I was thinking about the mennonite women I use to live around in my old town. They have a “uniform” that is not flattering for nearly all women, and only the young women/older teenagers can really be considered attractive despite the boring attire and makeup-free face.
These women work very very hard. Their dispositions are such that they don’t complain, don’t make a nuisance of themselves, and are very dutiful in attending to their tasks. I think that ..pragmatically speaking..they know that their value is almost entirely in what they do/don’t do It is quite a juxtaposition to the modern woman who tends to see her value in her sexual allure and much less so in her productivity and virtue.
I am not sure who has it worse. The modern woman whose worth is so wrapped up in her appearance that she puts herself through hell to fight the inevitable changes of aging or the woman whose entire worth in life is in what she can do, and then what happens when she has a disability that makes her unable to perform her tasks with the excellence expected?
One of the things I like about WWNH is that he praises female subjectivity..ie “solipsism” for the adaptive necessity that it is. Objectivity will make a woman realize her true value, and a woman has no need of such knowledge. The natural result of a woman who is too objective for her own good is a woman who goes to extremes at the expense of her mental health or a woman who stops bothering to project any value towards society at all.
Darn it..I got all existential again. I hate when I do that.
OTC
September 18, 2011
Wonderful, you really have a good handle on the man’s view. And this applies to non-Christians just as well.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
I don’t understand why a man would need to show his wife off. Isn’t that a form of advertising? Same goes for a woman who shows cleavage in her day-to-day wear and wants to be modest– you’re advertising something that isn’t for sale. Why do that?
Herbie
September 18, 2011
The “belly shirts” give off a little too trashy of a look, and on the bigger gals they can detract from their other attractive qualities. T-shirts look good though.
“bitch swapping”
That gave me a chuckle. Is that what those crazy kids are doing these days?
CL
September 18, 2011
they look like their vato loco boyfriends are about to pick them up for a night of bitch swapping
That is a great line, lol.
Isn’t that a form of advertising?
No, because she is obviously taken. It’s no more a form of advertising than a guy out in his Ferrari – part of the allure of driving it is that other guys are going to look at him and think “Lucky guy”, but they know the car isn’t for sale. Same thing applies here. Remember, we’re talking about men; when they see a woman in a bikini, the same part of their brains light up as when they look at power tools.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Still doesn’t make sense to me.
Herbie
September 18, 2011
“…when they see a woman in a bikini, the same part of their brains light up as when they look at power tools.”
I’m no psychologist, but I would beg to differ on that point.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Remember, we’re talking about men; when they see a woman in a bikini, the same part of their brains light up as when they look at power tools.”
This is true. I like girls in bikinis.
CL
September 18, 2011
I meant to say “pictures of…”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090216-bikinis-women-men-objects.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/feb/16/sex-object-photograph
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Still doesn’t make sense to me.”
It’s okay, Lacey. That’s because you’re a gerrull
CL
September 18, 2011
News flash: Lots of things we do don’t make sense to men either.
Svar
September 18, 2011
This Fiske guy is a whiny bitch. He was absolutely “shocked” that men want to bang girls in bikinis. Hell, men sing songs about Girls in Bikinis:
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Showing off a car is one thing, but showing off your girlfriend/or wife is another. It’s one thing if another guy came up to you and then said how fine looking your car was, but if a guy came up to another man and told his girlfriend/or wife how fine looking she was, I’d say we’d end up having a problem.
This is also sitting on the assumption that a man would defend and protect his woman. There are plenty of men out there who want their wives to “show off” a little or simply state that they don’t mind, but when the comments or looks come, the guys then say “well, you should have expected that to happen when you’re wearing such-and-so.”
Svar
September 18, 2011
“It’s one thing if another guy came up to you and then said how fine looking your car was, but if a guy came up to another man and told his girlfriend/or wife how fine looking she was, I’d say we’d end up having a problem.”
Lacey does have a point. That pisses me off.
CL
September 18, 2011
Lacey, I am talking about a specific situation here. It’s unlikely a guy is going to come and make a comment like that to another man about his woman unless you live in the ghetto. The rest is pure straw man.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Okay so maybe not that kind of comment, but many taken woman do get hit on or flirted with right in front of their guy’s faces.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Okay… this post was written to me, right? LOL
How many times do you see women hunched over with her arms pulled forward or crossed to disguise her breasts? This is not attractive.
Um… that’s the whole point. The whole point is for an attractive woman to make herself look less attractive. Same with the dowdy hairdo, baggy clothes, frumpy shoes, makeup-less face, coke-bottle glasses, unshaven legs, and well-bitten nails. You don’t seem to understand the aura she’s trying to project.
Furthermore, she is not easy and it would take a larger investment of his time than he typically is willing to give.
Or, you know, he could just drag her off.
When this is done right, she is noticed as a beautiful woman, and people look at him and think, “Lucky guy.”
Or they think, “Wow, I wonder where he bought her?”
CL
September 18, 2011
Again, how are they behaving to invite that? There are many variables here. She can easily encourage or discourage that behaviour in men. Men are not idiots; women play nasty games at times.
Alte
September 18, 2011
This is also sitting on the assumption that a man would defend and protect his woman. There are plenty of men out there who want their wives to “show off” a little or simply state that they don’t mind, but when the comments or looks come, the guys then say “well, you should have expected that to happen when you’re wearing such-and-so.”
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
They want you to look “hot” and then they leave the house with you and act pissed off when someone gives you a bit too much attention. Umm… ya know… don’t advertise what you’re not selling. If your wife isn’t for sale, don’t dress her up like she’s on the market. Duh.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Taking a situation where a woman is not behaving in a way to elicit poor responses from other men, she is wearing something “revealing” that her boyfriend or husband likes or has asked her to wear, and it is obvious she is taken– it still happens. I’m not referring to games.
However, when that happens I see it due to advertising, especially if a guy’s response is “what else did you expect?” Since there is no guarantee that a guy will actually move to protect, it is better to err on caution rather than be “showed off.”
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
LMAO Alte. Stealing my line!
Alte
September 18, 2011
It definitely still happens. And not just in the ghetto, as I don’t tend to hang out in the ghetto.
Alte
September 18, 2011
laceagate
September 18, 2011
I’m trying to imagine a ghetto Alte…nope, not working but the imagery is pretty hilarious.
Alte
September 18, 2011
My husband says I look expensive, and that people thinks he’s rich if he takes me someplace.
People act like thugs are all hanging out in the ghetto. No… there are plenty of thugs in Armani suits and Porsches.
And — yes, it’s true — they will step to you right in front of your man. Happens. And then what? Let’s watch you and him fight? Eh… no thanks. I just want to go out and have dinner and some dancing, thanks.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I think it’s absolutely hilarious that my husband likes to pretend that nobody’s going to be thugging like that, when he did exactly that with me himself! Hello… doesn’t he realize he’s not the only thug out there who will come on to someone else’s woman like it’s nothing? It’s like… you know… other men aren’t blind.
Reminds me of Assange taking that guy’s girlfriend right in front of him. Ouch!
Svar
September 18, 2011
“No… there are plenty of thugs in Armani suits and Porsches.”
Ah yes, I know what you mean…. guidos. Good thing we don’t have them in Texas.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Actually, I was referring to a chemist I dated for a while, who drove a Carrera. But guidos, too. Actually, I didn’t date him, but he tried.
Alte
September 18, 2011
My dad picked my mother up at a disco… she was there with her fiance. Ouch!
Svar
September 18, 2011
Really don’t like guidos.
http://finndistan.blogspot.com/2011/09/smelly-media-growing-back-your-balls.html
“A Finn walking down the street maybe with his friend or two, since Finns do not usually hang out in bigger groups is faced with a group of immigrants, not one, not two, but five, but ten. All dressed to the hilt, all shiny new shoes, trendy clothes, all aggressive looking, and none in the fear of the police since the police would be afraid of being racist, if an event would occur. All hanging around the town 24/7, all expenses paid bt the state, including better and newer clothing than the finns, including 50 euro haircuts that this working Finn cannot afford, and looking at the Finn with an aggressive Finnophobia.
Two types of these wolf packs exist:
The “Thug Life” followers. Lots of bling bling, big shiny hats, low hanging jeans., Guess underwear, jeans proudly proclaiming “Thug Life”… Walks like a prison b&tch. Hanging out in groups of five to ten, always hanging out, and looking for whom to eat next.
The other group looks Spanish, sometimes claims to be Spanish or Italian to women, wears tight jeans, has very stylish beards, likes white jackets, pointy shoes, and walks like a rooster. Always sits in coffees, looking for who to sneer at next. Are the main group fighting in the nightclubs; like 9 out of 10 times it is these lotharios causing the fights.”
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
I think there’s a distinct difference between dressing her up for market and appreciating a woman not dressed in a potato sack. CL’s right about the attitude thing – slumped over and half cowering under six layers of boiled wool is kind of a downer. A man wants the wife of his youth, not his grammawl. I don’t know, I think looking as if we’re well taken care of is a good indication that we’ll continue to be well taken care of – it’s a marker to others, men and women alike. We’re not talking push up bras and micro-minis, here, but the occasional curve or high heel does a relationship good. Just because other people notice doesn’t mean it’s only for their benefit.
Svar
September 18, 2011
My dad picked my mother up at a disco… she was there with her fiance. Ouch!”
My heart just melted
So who did your husband steal you from?
laceagate
September 18, 2011
I read the looking expensive comment and started laughing hysterically. I am still laughing. This is one of the downsides of being “ethnic” looking. One of my husband’s grandparents once commented that I looked like I “cost a lot,” and I just wanted to laugh and say wtf. LMAO!
CL
September 18, 2011
slumped over and half cowering under six layers of boiled wool is kind of a downer
CC, you are on fire today. Hilarious.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Ha ha, Svar. The guys that are the most aggressive with me are usually blond. Swedes and Russians are the worst.
This is how I dress:

He says that I look like an Oma.
This is how my husband wants me to dress when we go out at night:

Oh helllllll no. Is. Not. Happening.
We can sometimes compromise on this:

Alte
September 18, 2011
His best friend, of course. And the first time he took me to meet up with his friends, it was at his best friend’s birthday party. I had no idea we were going there, and as soon as I walked in I was like, “Where’s the exit?” They’re cool about it now.
CC,
Didn’t your husband steal you from someone, too?
Alte
September 18, 2011
Lacey,
I see we understand each other.
Morticia
September 18, 2011
It can’t be forgotten either that there is a growing trend of “wife sharing” where the guy actually gets off on his wife having sex with other men.
The thuggish guys hitting on married women have probably been successful in their endeavors more than a few times.
Alte
September 18, 2011
People carry guns now too, so it can turn very dangerous very fast.
CL
September 18, 2011
Wow, you guys seem a bit paranoid. Alte, weren’t you saying you’re no fun? Well, that’s what this is about – having fun.
Alte
September 18, 2011
CL,
My husband says I’m paranoid too, until something happens and he gets the shit scared out of him. But then he says, “Well, it’s just a one-time thing.” Okay, honey.
Can we all see this turning into a white/brown split? Where’s Terri?
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
CC,
Didn’t your husband steal you from someone, too?
lol, yes, his boss.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
You know, I don’t want to come off as if I am disregarding what CL has said because makes many valid points. But this also exists with an ideal.
Ideally a man would be confident enough to know that if he shows his wife off, and another man makes a comment or it is obvious he is looking, the guy can always think to his self “haha chump…she’s going home with me” and know that no matter how many men comment or look, it does not matter.
For the woman, if a man makes a comment or looks, I would think her husband should make it obvious that she is HIS– such as by wrapping his arm around her, telling the guy “yeah, I know she’s fine and I get to take her home– where’s your woman?”
It doesn’t work out like that for the majority of women. So the majority of women find comfort in that wool or covering up all the time because they cannot trust that they will be protected, or that the whole wanting to please her husband won’t backfire since she is technically being advertised.
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
People carry guns now too, so it can turn very dangerous very fast.
I have yet to shoot anyone for looking at me (though the creepy tag guy was asking to get punched in the nads).
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
The third girl is cute, that’s kind of the threshold, here, too.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
not wearing a lot of makeup, shorter finger nails without obnoxious bright colors
EPIC FAIL
Svar
September 18, 2011
“It can’t be forgotten either that there is a growing trend of “wife sharing” where the guy actually gets off on his wife having sex with other men. ”
Who the fuck gets off on that? That’s messed up.
“Ha ha, Svar. The guys that are the most aggressive with me are usually blond. Swedes and Russians are the worst.”
Russians makes sense, but Swedes? Are these Swedes from Sweden or Swedes from like Argentina? I mean, Sweden is the “evolved” country that cut the balls of the lion in their army banner: http://finndistan.blogspot.com/2011/09/smelly-media-enough-of-this-equality.html
Even countries like Norway and Finland are far more sane than Sweden… on everything(but reading’s Finndistan’s blog on Finland or Svein Sellanraa’s blog Dispatches From the North on Norway made me realize that’s doesn’t mean much.)
I like Russians… somewhat. Vladimir Putin or Vladimir Zhirinovsky are great though.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“lol, yes, his boss”
Heh, his boss was one of those beta guys that you would pester in LTRs, right?
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
his boss was one of those beta guys that you would pester in LTRs, right
Yes, poor thing. He’s a friend of our family, much older, I’m sure he’s happy with his string of graduate student interns. Bet he never hires another male one, though.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I mean Swedes from Sweden. Whenever he asks me to dress up, I just say, “I hope there won’t be any Swedes there…”
Alte
September 18, 2011
The third girl is cute, that’s kind of the threshold, here, too.
Yeah, I do form-fitting, but I avoid skin-tight, plunging necklines, or micro-skirts. I wore an outfit like he likes to meet with some colleagues for dinner recently, and he said afterward, “Okay, you were right. It was a bit much. He could barely talk.” Uh huh.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“I hope there won’t be any Swedes there…”
Bet Kinder bet, morgen kommt der Schwed’….
laceagate
September 18, 2011
DA, we all know you’ve got the long nail fetish but sometimes shorter fingernails that look tasteful are like these:
http://larasbeautybible.blogspot.com/2010/11/notw-festive-marbeling-nail-update.html
Minus that garish ring.
http://josiesnails.blogspot.com/2011/05/orly-pink-whisper.html
Too much makeup does look horrible. Not to mention, dramatic makeup starts to make you look older, rather than younger which is often the intent.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Alter Schwede
7man
September 18, 2011
Thanks Alte, that explains it, it must be in my blood, since I’m half Swede, (although Americanized for 3 generations).
Alte
September 18, 2011
This is what my nails look like: http://www.bluegiraffespa.com/Images/ImageManager/gel-nail-rock.jpg
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
Solange es nicht zum Schwedentrunk kommt…
Morticia
September 18, 2011
I hate when I have to busta cap in a thug cuz hez tryin to get wit me.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“I mean Swedes from Sweden.”
I see… good. I see that they have assimilated rather quickly and reclaimed their sacks. Erik the Red would be proud.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
LMAO Morticia…
I pity da fool!
Alte
September 18, 2011
My husband doesn’t understand about the Swedes and blond Slavic and Celtic guys. But… you know… Beutefrau. He thinks he’s the only one.
Alte
September 18, 2011
True dat!
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
rotflmao, Morticia.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“True dat!”
Wen meinste grad?
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“blond Slavic and Celtic guys”
Aren’t Celts according to the Romans brownhaired?
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
He says that I look like an Oma.
It’s not that you dress as an Oma, but it doesn’t have the same sex appeal as say that black dress that Miss Kardashian sports in the other photo. I wouldn’t mind if my hypothetical girlfriend/wife dressed up like first photo, but I’m expecting her to realize that I need the second photo as well as it’s part of the reason that I bought into the concept of her being my significant other.
So Alte, be a good submissive wife and dress for him.
DA, we all know you’ve got the long nail fetish but sometimes shorter fingernails that look tasteful are like these
Athena tends to have shortish nails like that, and they’re at best a compromise when compared to a proper acrylic nail overlay. Mind you, a bit of colour or decoration on the nails is at minimum what I do expect as untouched hands are so unfeminine on a girl’s hands. Luckily, current fashion trends have created a bit of colour on the hands of many young women, so at least I’m not looking at a sea of manhands.
Not to mention, dramatic makeup starts to make you look older, rather than younger which is often the intent.
Maybe it’s me, but there’s something that’s feminine about it. Mind you, it seems that for David Alexander, the more “accessories” and sexualized her appearance, the more feminine a woman is.
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
the more “accessories” and sexualized her appearance, the more feminine a woman is
Really? I mean, maybe on a young twenty something, but the words “old hooker” come to mind when I imagine anyone over 28 sporting more than one color on her nails and her eyelids.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Over-sexualizing a woman’s appearance can make her look like a drag queen.
I avoid doing the “full makeup” look on myself because I really DO look like a drag queen. It’s bad, not even kidding. Wearing mascara makes me look just plain silly, for one. I also don’t like lipstick and don’t understand “contouring” crap with blush. But I suspect if you are trying to contour you must be a drag queen.
7man
September 18, 2011
CC, it sounds like you are mono-chromatic.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
“Okay, you were right. It was a bit much. He could barely talk.”
Pfft. He’s obviously not an alpha.
They want you to look “hot” and then they leave the house with you and act pissed off when someone gives you a bit too much attention.
In contrast, I’d want my wife to look hot in public so I can see her look hot as often as possible. If anything, if she’s getting too much attention, it’s a sign that I did rather well as other men would probably kill to be in my [hypothethical] position.
If I’m getting married, I want a frigging living Barbie doll!
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
it sounds like you are mono-chromatic.
Why, thank you. Or something. That’s just about enough out of you.
CL
September 18, 2011
That’s just about enough out of you.
Damn Swedes.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
LMAO…7Man is also Nordic. Can we blame that part, too?
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
but the words “old hooker” come to mind when I imagine anyone over 28 sporting more than one color on her nails and her eyelids
Admittedly, it can sometimes get out of hand, but some tastefully done art work on a female hand is certainly an exemplary form of femininity. And amazingly, most porn stars don’t do the whole “multi-colour” look on the eyelids, but instead, there’s a tasteful yet sexually alluring smokey eye look that transforms her into a feminine creature.
Over-sexualizing a woman’s appearance can make her look like a drag queen.
And that’s bad because? It’s sad that drag queens look more feminine than real women.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
No, DA. Drag queens look like masculinized women with garish over the top makeup. It is sad that there is an expectation so high women cannot reach, that men dressed up in drag fulfill. When women pile on a TON of makeup, they start to get a masculinized appearance because the makeup is set in a way to emphasize lines and angles– not add softness and curves.
Then again, I wouldn’t suggest any woman ascribe to those expectations. There is NOTHING feminine about this:
http://kirstensstylereport.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/rupaul-drag-queen.jpg
Alte
September 18, 2011
I think my husband thinks, “Oh, she’s just a little housewife dressing up for her day out.” I think he doesn’t understand that other men are thinking something different when they see me in that sort of getup.
I actually went all-out once last winter, and was like, “Let’s go, baby.” Even he was nervous, and he kept driving slower and slower, and cracking nervous jokes about how he should stop and buy a baseball bat. Then, right before we got there, he decided he was tired and drove to my mother’s house instead. Ha! Didn’t think so.
So he wants me to dress like that, but sometimes he chickens out. Recently I was wearing something low-cut in the front, and he kept reaching over to pull it up, “You’re sort of hanging out there.”
Wen meinste grad?
Morticia.
Celts mixed with the Vikings and Germans, so there are plenty of blond Celts.
CL
September 18, 2011
Celts mixed with the Vikings and Germans, so there are plenty of blond Celts.
Yup, blonde part-Celt here.
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
some tastefully done art work on a female hand is certainly an exemplary form of femininity
Unless it’s ethnic/traditional, as in henna, it’s goofy. If a woman has man hands, and then adds fake nails, she then has feminine hands? It doesn’t work like that, plus, it’s SO unsanitary – you really want someone with a petri dish at the end of every finger to be making your sandwiches?
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Unless you are ghetto, most guys think the garish gel nails with the pimped out “freestyle” designs on them are not the most elegant. Most guys like to hold hands that look clean, groomed nails, and are definitely not stubby or chewed down stumps.
Having a hand that’s goofy usually screams “ghetto” or as Daegus would say “Hood Rat.”
7man
September 18, 2011
That’s just about enough out of you.
CC, not to worry, my eyes are directed elsewhere.
Learner
September 18, 2011
the words “old hooker” come to mind when I imagine anyone over 28 sporting more than one color on her nails and eyelids
Really? Darn it! I was thinking of going for a manicure as a treat (I never have) and I wanted to get a little flower painted on one nail
.
I normally wear very little make-up, just a little concealer under my eyes, light mascara, a little light blush for my pale face and some powder for my nose. I don’t wear it because I don’t like how it feels and I really don’t like how it looks if it gets smeared or messed up (like raccoon eyes from eyeliner), plus, Brendan says he doesn’t like make up.
I probably walk more like a man than a proper lady… My balance isn’t great so I can’t walk with one foot directly in from of the other like the models do (which is what I think you ean CL?)….I would fall over! Today in church we celebrated the feast of the veneration of the cross and I Iost my balance and nearly fell getting up from my prostration…had to grab onto the icon table to steady myself :/
Alte
September 18, 2011
For clarification, my nails just have soak-off gel polish on them, with a French manicure. No acrylic or fake-tips, or anything. I think it looks very nice, and men do compliment me on them.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Learner, they’re talking about nails like this: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dMWPYLrfy_8/SdH2rhw6lPI/AAAAAAAAAjs/9prWcSd85Oo/s400/fake+nails.jpg
laceagate
September 18, 2011
I think we’re feeding DA’s nail fetish with all this talk. LOL!
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
I would fall over! Today in church we celebrated the feast of the veneration of the cross and I Iost my balance and nearly fell getting up from my prostration…had to grab onto the icon table to steady myself :/
Oh, yes, communion bowling, I’m well acquainted with it – it’s especially effective if you take a couple of little kids down with you.
Aren’t you an academic, Learner? Plus you’re sweet, you could get away with a flower, and you should have the manicure regardless. It’s the hoochie mama stuff I’m casting my pious judgment on.
7man
September 18, 2011
Alte, yuk to those nails! How can a woman tend her vegetable garden with those?
Alte
September 18, 2011
This is what I use: http://www.nailsmag.com/demoarticle/1014/opi-axxium-soak-off-gel-lacquer Love it.
7man
September 18, 2011
To build on a Morticia-ism, those are not sutible for a “crunchy” woman.
Alte
September 18, 2011
7man, I think the point is to make it clear that she doesn’t have to tend a vegetable garden. It’s sort of like high-heels that way: makes her look useless and decadent.
7man
September 18, 2011
OK, high heels maybe, but in the vegetable garden toes in the mud are much more appealing.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Without the gel polish my nails break off doing housework, and the color chips otherwise. My husband likes it because I can scratch him. Battle scars to show off at the gym. He he. I have very feminine hands and feet, though. I get my toes painted red.
CL
September 18, 2011
Spoilt princess more like. Those nails are hideous. Alte’s nails sound tasteful and pretty.
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
I get my toes painted red.
I get French on both – my husband thinks it’s slightly freakish, but he doesn’t really care as long as they’re done. I had dark chocolate brown last year and he though it was hot, but I don’t really do color (lol, as it turns our I AM monochromatic) so that’s as adventurous as I get.
The gel colors are really pretty, and they do last.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Here’s another picture of nails like mine. http://www.exquisitegelnails.com/0_0_0_0_286_214_upload_140678212.jpg?u=1178508490
It is very pretty. I’ve actually shaken hands with people or written something down, and had them say, “Wow, you have such beautiful hands!” It’s the nails, ladies. Gotta get your nails done. Toes too.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I’ve thought of doing French on both, but I really like red polish. I did mauve last time, but he thought it was too dull.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Do you get gel or normal paint, or acrylic overlay, CC?
Alte
September 18, 2011
I do look expensive, y’all. With the hands, and the shoes, and my mother’s clothes. And then I live in this house, drive a Hyundai, and shop at ALDI. LOL
CL
September 18, 2011
My nails are crappy. I think they’d need a team to make them look like that.
Plus I play the guitar and they get in the way on the left hand if they’re too long, so that’s my excuse.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I had a gel overlay first, CL, and then once they’d grown out I soaked it off and just have the polish. But if you play an instrument, it might not work. I just keep them rather short, and then it’s not a problem. Just saying… I think it looks nice, and it makes my hands look less like dishwasher fingers.
CL
September 18, 2011
I’m also lazy.
the cottage child
September 18, 2011
Solar gel – it’s kind of bluish at first, but it goes away as it cures.
Learner
September 18, 2011
Thanks CC
Alte, this multicolored nails are gross. I like the ones you say look like yours. I will have to try the gel polish, I hate chipped nail polish.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“My dad picked my mother up at a disco… she was there with her fiance. Ouch!”
And your Mom can be happy that your Dad kept such an easy prey.
So chasing Alpha can appearently work.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I’d never heard of solar gel before. I just had gel overlays for a while, and I’ve had acrylic before. I didn’t really like acrylic, and I got tired of the filing down with the gels, so the gel polish is my choice.
Alte
September 18, 2011
SLF,
Nah, my father picked my mom up. She wasn’t even looking in his direction, but he just walked up to her and asked her to dance, right in front of her
chumpfiance.Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
And in that short moment of weakness, your mother decided it’s time to change?
It seems your father is either a very brave or a very foolish man.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Brave. He was just ready to fight over her, that’s all. Men get like that if they see someone they really want.
That’s why I don’t agree with this post. It’s all fun and dandy until you run into the wrong guy, and then nobody’s laughing anymore.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
Your mother was that THAT hot?
Alte
September 18, 2011
I told you she was.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
And her fiance let them go?
Just..so?
Alte
September 18, 2011
He just wanted to drink with his buddies. And then he looked around later and they were gone. He was PISSED. Came to my Opa’s house with a shotgun, and everything. My dad was like, “You snooze, you lose.” LOL
My dad was pretty hot, too. Like a boxer.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“My dad was like, “You snooze, you lose.” LOL”
That could have ended bad.
Your Dad likes Poker?
Alte
September 18, 2011
My dad was a soldier, and my mom was really THAT hot.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“And that’s bad because? It’s sad that drag queens look more feminine than real women.”
When you say ridiculous shit like this, three words come to mind: “Roissy via Deuce”.
The tranny-look isn’t popular with most men, DA. Also, trannies are not feminine-looking either.
Svar
September 18, 2011
Lacey, that picture made me gag a little.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
Obviously hypergamy works, when your mother decided from one second to the other to leave her fiance.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“my mom was really THAT hot”
Would your mom mind if you post a few old pictures?
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
There is NOTHING feminine about this:
If I didn’t know that there was a man underneath, I’d say it was feminine and sexual, but as I said, those “extras” are what creates femininity for me.
I wanted to get a little flower painted on one nail
Don’t listen to her. She’s just upset that she’s got man hands. Athena and a few other co-workers have done that, and it looks tasteful and feminine to me.
I think we’re feeding DA’s nail fetish with all this talk. LOL!
Yeah, you are. Even a girl in sweatshirt and jeans with a little make up on is more feminine than a girl in a dress without those extras.
Learner, they’re talking about nails like this
Yeah, that’s kinda ghetto and garish. It’s even worse looking on black women.
Alte, yuk to those nails! How can a woman tend her vegetable garden with those?
That’s what your husband (or the supermarket) is for, duh.
Svar
September 18, 2011
I’m pretty sure I’m not the only guy who doesn’t notice nails on a girl.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“I’m pretty sure I’m not the only guy who doesn’t notice nails on a girl”
Yup.
And I don’t like lipstick on them either.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“He was PISSED. Came to my Opa’s house with a shotgun, and everything. My dad was like, “You snooze, you lose.” LOL”
Was this in Germany? Was the man a German?
I have a feeling that it would have been a completely different story if it were a Volga German. The men of the East….. they’re different: http://www.inmalafide.com/blog/2010/12/16/punish-the-cad-and-the-whore/
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Yup.
And I don’t like lipstick on them either.”
Same here, girls my age wear lip-gloss and whatnot. That’s alright and they look old when they wear lipstick.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
I’m pretty sure I’m not the only guy who doesn’t notice nails on a girl.
Charlotte noted that none of the men at work noticed her highlights, but then she complains that I keep far too much track of her changes. Of course, all of the girls agreed that “men don’t notice anything”, but when I noted my tendencies, she simply stated that I’m “different”.
Double E
September 18, 2011
@Svar
Who gets off on his wife being swapped with other men?
Every American male who let’s his wife go through a TSA checkpoint. I don’t understand the males who tolerate their women getting felt up by others but I guess it shows you how degenerate the culture has become.
CL
September 18, 2011
I don’t like lipstick either – especially dark or bright colours. I think it tastes and smells funny and looks like clown make-up. Lip gloss is nice though. Sometimes it amazes me how much make-up most women wear and that almost every last one has dyed hair. It’s weird. Most you can see would look so much nicer without all the fake crap.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Her fiance was a dentist from Munich.
Would your mom mind if you post a few old pictures?
Ha ha. Yes! She’d HATE that, actually. No photos, sorry. You’ll just have to take my word for it.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I’m pretty sure I’m not the only guy who doesn’t notice nails on a girl.
You may not be the only man, but many do notice.
Svar
September 18, 2011
Agreed, Thag. I like lip-gloss on girls, but lipstick looks weird.
Not many girls I know wear alot of makeup(maybe I can’t tell), but the ones that do are kind of plastic looking.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Makeup doesn’t seem to improve my looks very much, except in photos. I’m always amazed at before/after photos of blonds, as they seem to get the most out of makeup. http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2010/05/06/stars-makeup/
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
.“ No photos, sorry”
Could you post a picture of somebody who looks similar?
Morticia
September 18, 2011
Yes, I’d say that most the women here don’t wear make-up because they don’t need it. In which case- good for you!
Many women NEED make-up. Blotchy skin, pale lips, invisible eye-lashes.. all fixed with some cosmetic help.
http://www.makeupstyle.net/images/Top-Celebrities-without-Makeup-3.jpg
OffTheCuff
September 18, 2011
All the women complaining here about low-cut or push-ups is going a bit far. My kid’s godparents are practicing Christians, and far far far more conservative than I am. They went out for their anniversary yesterday, and we watched their kids. Yet, my buddy’s wife was wearing a new low-cut dress that he picked out for her. A natural 44DD, you can’t “miss it”, and all of us complimented her on it, and joked a bit about how he intentionally picked it for the massive boobage effect. She’s not selling goods to other men, she wants to look going, have fun with her husband and if other people can’t handle it, it’s their problem. My wife wears pushups to counteract the gravitational effects of three children, and I like her in tank tops.
Listen to CL, she gets it exactly right.
CL
September 18, 2011
That second pic is washed out in the face to hide flaws. Completely different lighting from the first one so not a very good representation; it’s almost a cartoon it’s so ‘shopped.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Like Juliette Binoche or Julia Ormond, but with bright blue eyes.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“Her fiance was a dentist from Munich”
THAT could have ended..badly.
CL
September 18, 2011
The pics Alte posted, not the J-Lo ones.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Here’s another one, then.

And here’s one with just the addition of eyebrows and eyeliner:

The difference is dramatic.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I’m wearing a stretchy camisole right now, but I don’t wear them out of the house except for layering. He buys me sexy clothes and I do wear them, but I layer enough to feel comfortable in them. And then he complains.
Morticia
September 18, 2011
Eyebrows and eye lashes make a huge dramatic difference on blondes because generally they are very light and bordering on invisible. It can make a girl look like Voldemort.
For me I need to wear foundation to even out my blotchy combination skin tone and mascara to bring out my eyes because they are very deep set. Most people say the difference between how I look with make-up and how I look without is dramatic. Even though my husband met me without makeup he definitely prefers me with it.
Svar
September 18, 2011
These before and after pics are disturbing. Is that what women look like without their makeup? Holy shit….
CL
September 18, 2011
Yeah that second set is definitely quite a difference. Luckily for me I’m also part Spanish so I don’t look quite that bad without make-up.
Anna Kornikova looks more cute in the first one; the second is a bit over done.
CL
September 18, 2011
Yes Svar, it’s quite an art form for some people. You probably think girls are wearing way less than they are.
Svar
September 18, 2011
I’ve never seen Twilight(but I’ve enjoying reading all the Manosphere articles ripping it apart haha), but that Ashley Greene chick is hot.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Svar, most women have their faces drawn on. True story. I look the same 24/7, and that’s one of the things my husband prizes me the most for, aesthetically.
Morticia
September 18, 2011
Svar- Most the very young women you know are probably naturally pretty. It is about age 30 when white women take a dramatic turn for the worst. The eyebrows fade to oblivion..the lips shrink.. the eye lashes disappear.. and skin starts to show fine lines.
With teenage girls they might be hiding acne behind some foundation but acne isn’t easily hidden anyway so a discerning eye can tell the difference.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I’d say age 25. That seems to be the “peak” for most of them. I’m 30 now, and looking around… nah, they peak at 25. Morticia, you’re holding up better than most, so I think you might be comparing yourself with younger women. There are a couple at co-op who are over-30 and still very pretty, but they really stand out.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“I have a feeling that it would have been a completely different story if it were a Volga German. The men of the East….. they’re different”
Interesting IMF-article, guessing from the name it’s even a real Voga-German and not a Russian with a German Great-Great-Grandfather and perhaps a German Shephard.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Ashley Greene looks pretty without makeup.
Pretty black women don’t seem to “improve” much with makeup. Makeup is essentially paint, so the paler and “blanker” a canvas you have, the more dramatic the difference. I have black hair, black eyebrows, and black lashes, so makeup doesn’t do much.
Svar
September 18, 2011
@ Alte, Morticia, and CL
Interesting. I never knew any of that. Not sure how to feel about that though, especially this: “It is about age 30 when white women take a dramatic turn for the worst. The eyebrows fade to oblivion..the lips shrink.. the eye lashes disappear.. and skin starts to show fine lines.”
Well, actually, I had already known about “hitting the wall” but I forgot.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I never really wore makeup, but I learned about the before/after effect in high school. We’d take showers after dance practice, and some of them washed their faces right off. I was shocked the first time I saw it. These were among the prettiest girls in the school, after all. Luckily for them, men don’t seem to care about artifice.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Asian women often get a big “beauty boost” with makeup. All of the brownish-types don’t get as much out of it.
pb
September 18, 2011
“The women overly concerned with modesty often have a body language that is not attractive. Their posture often is such that they hide their curves. This is body insecurity, which is not an attractive trait. Often these women have the walking gait of a man. But even those seemingly unconcerned with modesty do this – I see women all the time dressed to the nines but walking like a man, slightly hunched even, with legs apart instead of one foot in front of the other. In this case, the woman who is modestly dressed yet carries herself well is going to attract more attention than the one showing a lot of skin but who doesn’t know how to carry herself in a feminine way.”
I’ve never heard those encouraging modesty to advocate this sort of posture/walking — it seems common enough to those who are striving to be modest, to those who are not, feminists, etc. — just American women in general have lost how to express femininity.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“It is about age 30 when white women take a dramatic turn for the worst. The eyebrows fade to oblivion..the lips shrink.. the eye lashes disappear.. and skin starts to show fine lines.”
Not convinced. Most women I encounter age better.
Even the mideastern women
CL
September 18, 2011
It is about age 30 when white women take a dramatic turn for the worst. The eyebrows fade to oblivion..the lips shrink.. the eye lashes disappear.. and skin starts to show fine lines.
WTF? Speak for yourself. I look at most people my age (39) and think, how on earth did you get to look this bad in 20 years?? It’s a little shocking, really. No, I don’t look 20, but I don’t look that bad, sheesh!
I have a theory that it’s the make-up. Young women plaster on the make-up, which is full of junky chemicals and drying agents, and do this every day for YEARS. Men don’t do this, and men don’t look hideous at 40. I have never worn much make-up – especially not “foundation” and “primer” (I’m pretty sure that’s for walls, not skin) – and I do not match this description at all.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Mideastern women aren’t really white, and you’re in Europe. Less sun there. You should see the way white women age further south. In Texas they turn into leather, especially the sun-worshipping ones. German women in Germany age much better than the ones here, for instance.
Alte
September 18, 2011
CL, that’s probably the Spanish blood protecting you.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I try to walk and stand/sit in a feminine manner, but it attracts a lot of attention so I eventually go back to slouching, slumping, crossing my arms, etc. He hates that. So does my mother.
CL
September 18, 2011
Thank God for my Spanish great grandmother then!
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Interesting IMF-article, guessing from the name it’s even a real Voga-German and not a Russian with a German Great-Great-Grandfather and perhaps a German Shephard.”
Exactly. A Volga German is a German who hasn’t internalized neither the WWII guilt, nor has been introduced to the softening Secular Liberalism of the West. The Aryan men of the East(mainly Slavic and Iranics and some Germanics. Indics used to be like that as well, but not anymore) have stayed true to the Indo-European pagan spirit even though they are mainly Christians and Muslims.
The Turkic men of the East are also very masculine. The Finns, an eastern Finno-Ugric people, used to have a very masculine mindset(Winter War), but unfortunately they have decided to ape Sweden. I think Hungarians are still like that, though.
CL
September 18, 2011
Oh yeah, and the sun. I stay out of the sun because I don’t like it, so maybe it’s my Scottish blood protecting me after all, lol.
CL
September 18, 2011
If it’s not Scottish it’s crap!
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“Mideastern women aren’t really white,”
Depends
“CL, that’s probably the Spanish blood protecting you.”
Med-blood protecting Spaniards but not Turks?
Evil eurocentric blood
Chris
September 18, 2011
I’m coming down from some weird virus at the moment… but doesn’t everyone layer — well at least everyone who actually goes outside? Woolen T shirt & long sleeved shirt under sweater and heavy coat: jeans and themal underwear (I’m male: this is not style, it’s what you wear to keep warm). I think the bigger problem is when in gets too hot, particularly in the harsh sunlight we have in Australia and NZ.
Besides, he gets to play with you in private… and the cute stuff is fun. When he stops buying it (assuming you are not in financial straits) THEN get worried.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
These before and after pics are disturbing. Is that what women look like without their makeup? Holy shit….
Welcome to the dark side.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“I’d say age 25. That seems to be the “peak” for most of them. I’m 30 now, and looking around… nah, they peak at 25.”
So the Manosphere is right, huh?
I remember them talking about Russian girls. About how they are really, really hot(which they definitely are. It seems that Russian girls start at either 7 and high-8s to high-9s aren’t that uncommon) but how they fall apart and turn in Babushkas when they’re about 25.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Welcome to the dark side.”
No, I am not going to jerk it to lady-boy porn.
Herbie
September 18, 2011
Make-up manufacturers provide a valuable service to society. This thread has changed course a few times since CC’s earlier bitch swapping theme.
Morticia
September 18, 2011
The only way to see how women really age is to hang around the really poor or those who eschew cosmetics for religious reasons- like the mennonites.
Everyone else has probably engaged in an enhancement or two..whether it is teeth whitening or drawing in some eyebrows or dying their hair. Women in their truly natural state are rare in any industrialized country. And thank God for that!
Svar
September 18, 2011
“In Texas they turn into leather, especially the sun-worshipping ones.”
Alte, you’re killing me. That’s like 90% of them. Hot girls really like the sun for some reason.
““Mideastern women aren’t really white,”
Depends”
True. I guess Middle-Easterners are if they are Nordic looking like that Berber soccer player who headbutted that other guy:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=zidane&hl=en&biw=1429&bih=628&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=aBK6JHYpfZTYiM:&imgrefurl=http://sportscorner-pak.blogspot.com/2011/04/zinedine-zidane.html&docid=YdaHSvjxexNkfM&w=300&h=350&ei=AIx2TujFLafLsQKVhs2LBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=520&vpy=164&dur=2952&hovh=243&hovw=208&tx=113&ty=108&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=105&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0
But, then again white is both racial and cultural: Caucasian + European, not just Caucasian.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
In Texas they turn into leather, especially the sun-worshipping ones.
My personal theory is that (white) women in the South tend to age harder as they’re in latitudes that are further south than their native latitudes in Europe. In contrast, it’s less of a problem in the Northeast, especially since many Northeasterners have Mediterranean ancestry.
For sampling, we should compare Albertans and Texans of Northern European ancestry.
Pretty black women don’t seem to “improve” much with makeup.
Some have alleged that it may simply be due to the cosmetic industry’s focus on women with lighter skin over those with darker skin, so make up designed for white women just does very little for black women.
There are a couple at co-op who are over-30 and still very pretty, but they really stand out.
I’ve found that in my experience, beauty can peak at say 25, but one can stay relatively attractive with makeup and proper dressing into the mid-thirties. After that, you can age gracefully, but you’re not going to look 25 at 40. As I’ve seen, some women at the supermarket look great for their ages, and others look terrible.
CL
September 18, 2011
So, like, do any of the women here actually care how men feel? Just wondering….
Svar
September 18, 2011
“So, like, do any of the women here actually care how men feel? Just wondering….”
Of course, they do. Men are great.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Yes, I care. I wear his sexy stuff at home. I just don’t feel safe wandering around town like that, and I worry about somebody bothering him.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“Alte, you’re killing me. That’s like 90% of them. Hot girls really like the sun for some reason.”
World conspiracy of black girls to eliminate competition.
Do you really think that Alte’s “bookclub” really exists.
CL
September 18, 2011
It’s different when you’re out than when you’re at home. I’d rather my man be drooling over me while we’re out than over someone else who dressed better.
CL
September 18, 2011
It also helps keep him from looking at other women, because he’s focused on you. You’re helping him to not have lustful thoughts about other women, you’re keeping him interested in only you. It seems that by not doing these things for him, you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
No, I am not going to jerk it to lady-boy porn.
When you’re 25 and wondering what became of the girl you slept with and why she looks so much worse in the morning, you’ll remember me.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
World conspiracy of black girls to eliminate competition.
There is no conspiracy as it would never work. Getting white guys to date black women is like pulling teeth.
Do you really think that Alte’s “bookclub” really exists.
Yes, it does exist. It still doesn’t mean that Alte isn’t running some secret underground vampire movement to enslave men. She converted Chels over to the dark side and she routinely threatens to send some woman out to defeat me with false promises of sex, nails, and brownies.
I just don’t feel safe wandering around town like that
Stop openly flirting with strange men on the town streets.
Herbie
September 18, 2011
Yes, CL. When a couple are out on a date, their attention should be focused on each other. Otherwise they’re displaying poor manners.
7man
September 18, 2011
This is not advocating extremes, but eye candy totally under wraps can allow a man’s attention to waiver.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“Getting white guys to date black women is like pulling teeth.”
Nah, there are enough hot black chicks.
“Yes, it does exist. It still doesn’t mean that Alte isn’t running some secret underground vampire movement to enslave men”
Your denial sounds suspiciously .
Admit: There isn’t a real David Alexander, you are only Alte’s sockpuppet.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I’ve said positive things about black women’s beauty, and the interdweebs are always like, “You’re just saying that because you look like that!” I never contradict them.
You’re helping him to not have lustful thoughts about other women, you’re keeping him interested in only you.
I know. I try. But it does make me quite nervous. And he’s just so extreme!
Like I bought this corset: http://www.ohcheri.com/product_thumb.php?img=images/TE90070.jpg&w=250&h=323 to wear with a button-down shirt underneath. And what does he say? “It’d look better without the shirt underneath.” Hello, do you have a death-wish, or something?
Herbie
September 18, 2011
7Man,
Yes, I’ve been guilty of taking a gaze and I’m sure my dates have as well.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Nah, there are enough hot black chicks.
He meant “white American guys”, not really “white guys”. It’s like a “thing” here to say that black women are all ugly. Just on principle, or whatnot.
I have a cousin who looks a lot like Gabrielle Union. Just got married to a really cute lawyer.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“ It’s like a “thing” here to say that black women are all ugly. Just on principle, or whatnot.”
Isn’t this a bit over-the-top to generalize this?
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
Kerry Washington looks good. And would look even better without this thing on the lips.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Asian women often get a big “beauty boost” with makeup. All of the brownish-types don’t get as much out of it.
That could explain why I look drag queenish with lots of makeup on. Once was accosted by the counter ladies at Clinique and at first they just wanted to try a little bit of eyeshadow…I can do eyeshadow, and I like eyeshadow…then they wanted to “even my skin out” (thanks for telling me I look blotchy) but apparently I had “great skin”…next thing I know, it was the WHOLE shabang. I went home, looked at my face in the mirror, and recoiled in horror. I took it all off before my husband got home. If he had seen that…he would have barfed…
When I do wear makeup, it’s mineral makeup that doesn’t sink into skin or has weird plasticky- sounding ingredients. It also only takes me less than 1 minute to put on makeup. Otherwise, I go crunchy.
This is not advocating extremes, but eye candy totally under wraps can allow a man’s attention to waiver.
That’s why you show a little when you’re at home. But out in public, if you are taken, there is no reason to have others notice you. It’s one thing if you are single, but when you are taken especially when married, doing things to purposefully get noticed is being an attention whore.
CL
September 18, 2011
So it looks like no one cares how men feel, only about make-up and shit. Got it!
What about the idea that pleasing your husband is pleasing to God? Any takers on that question?
Herbie
September 18, 2011
I’ve become acquainted with a few Jamaican gals at work recently. They seem to have a pleasant demeanor and are attractive. Same goes for the black American women at work. No matter what the color though, a pleasant personality goes a long way.
Alte
September 18, 2011
CL, I have no clue why you keep landing in spam.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Isn’t this a bit over-the-top to generalize this?
Ya think? LOL I didn’t get it when I first got here, but I think it has to do with slavery and stuff.
Alte
September 18, 2011
What about the idea that pleasing your husband is pleasing to God?
I try to please him. Really!
I wore the corset and everything, and then he chickened out. I wore the plunging neckline, and then he kept pulling up my shirt. Etc. I wear the clothes, and then he acts uncomfortable. He wants me to dress like that and have nobody notice, which isn’t going to happen. It’s schizophrenic. I don’t even understand what he wants.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Of course you please your husband, duh. Pleasing one’s husband does not include immodesty, however.
I still hold to my point that one should not advertise what is not for sale. I realize that different couples will see this differently. Men who are confident enough to know that while they are showing off their wife, they realize that there is no reason to be threatened by comments or looks that come his wife’s way, are able to do this more so than men who are not able to do this.
A wife would know if her husband was not confident enough to handle having other men look and comment. In that case, it is prudent to retain one’s modesty, even if it means an outfit that does not show as much. That is my conclusion based on what I know to be true.
Alte
September 18, 2011
A wife would know if her husband was not confident enough to handle having other men look and comment.
This. He can’t handle it, but he’s in denial or something. And he’s always shocked — Shocked, I say! — when someone comes on to me.
And it’s not just Americans, as this happens in Europe, as well. Like he took me to a party and told me to wear one of my Bavarian shirts, and acted pissed off when some guy looked too deeply into his glass and then too deeply into my cleavage. That’s the whole point of such a shirt! So that drunk, Bavarian guys slobber all over your tits. That’s why you wear them! Duh.
Alte
September 18, 2011
And it’s not like I don’t look sexy. I do! I just don’t have all of my junk hanging out and can walk around without tugging at my clothes.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“When you’re 25 and wondering what became of the girl you slept with and why she looks so much worse in the morning, you’ll remember me.”
No, when I walk down the streets with my bros and see a tranny, THEN I’ll think of you.
7man
September 18, 2011
Why such distrust of husbands? Do you not think he will be extra attentive if you dress to please him in public? The imagination of extreme is beyond the boundary he would set anyway.
And if he chickens out don’t you also think he will be more attentive, so the mission is accomplished anyway?
CL
September 18, 2011
Svar, lol.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
LMAO Alte…calm down.
Honestly, my husband has never said for me to wear anything, and he doesn’t tell me what “pleases” him. When he has said that he likes something, he’s never said to wear it. So I just dress modestly and cover up all the time.
At a wedding last week I did wear a dress that was rather low-cut in the front, but I wore underwear to de-emphasize any cleavage build-up. It was in an appropriate context and it is a rare occasion to see my chest.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“That could explain why I look drag queenish with lots of makeup on. ”
I think Alte is talking about East Asians, Lacey.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Lacey interpreted it correctly. My point is that it doesn’t help brownish women as much, and quickly moves into “way too much” territory.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
That’s why I added the “brownish types don’t get much out of it.” Hence, I tend to look WORSE. LOL.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Lacey, my husband loves to pick out my clothes. Stockings, jewelry, makeup, underwear, everything.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“No, when I walk down the streets with my bros and see a tranny, THEN I’ll think of you”
You have been fooled to react towards Alte’s sockpuppet.
Now she’s just encouraged.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“Stockings, jewelry, makeup, underwear, everything.”
Der beschäftigt sich mit dem ganzen Weiberkram?
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
Nah, there are enough hot black chicks.
That’s kinda useless for the average black woman.
It’s like a “thing” here to say that black women are all ugly. Just on principle, or whatnot.
Maybe it’s me, but it’s not so much that the black women are ugly, but they’re not as attractive as white women on average. In other words, not Kerry Washington or Beyoncé, but how does the average black woman compare to the average white women. And it doesn’t help that there is the perpetual stereotype of the loud, angry thug loving black woman.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Lacey interpreted it correctly.”
Oh, so you were talking about Middle-Eastern and East-Indian types not East Asians.
terri
September 18, 2011
“ It’s like a “thing” here to say that black women are all ugly. Just on principle, or whatnot.”
Yes, I’ve noticed that in this corner of the ‘net. The truth is that black women tend to let their weight get out of control far too often.Part of it is that I think we tend to gain weight more easily and if you don’t watch it, you get fat. The other part is that for a long time it didn’t cost black women when it came to mating. I think it’s starting to cost them now though, at least it’s true for some.
The other truth though is that I don’t know any black woman whose lived a clean and healthy lifestyle that has even a hint of a wrinkle before 45 0r 50. And I do mean NONE. I’m not sure why it is, but black women age very well when we take care of ourselves. When I look in the mirror, I think I look my age, but that’s compared to other black women. Ask a black woman to guess my age and she’d be correct within a couple of years. But all of my white friends swear I look younger than I am.
As for CL’s post: I noticed recently that the things my husband most likes to see me in are not immodest really. Well, some of the more strident modesty proponents would say that they are, but they’re really not. But they are things that tend to emphasize my chest more than more loose fitting things might. He also likes the belts around the waist look. Again, draws the eyes from the waist straight to the chest.
At first I felt like shouldn’t wear certain things if I noticed men take a second look or offer a compliment when I wear them. But if they aren’t immodest but just figure flattering, I do my husband a disservice by dressing to deter other men instead of dressing in a way that is attractive to him.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
That’s sort of…weird. No offense! I ask mine for his opinions on my earrings and other jewelry but to pick out my clothes…my underwear, that depends…but stockings? Makeup? Uhh, he’d find that weird.
There is no distrust of husbands, IMO. It’s just a matter of saying one thing and acting a completely different way– it is incongruous.
Like I said, some guys can’t handle it and therefore their wives should dress accordingly.
Svar
September 18, 2011
DA has a point about “on average”, but since when are we interested in averages? A hot chick is a hot chick.
terri
September 18, 2011
Lacey, my husband loves to pick out my clothes. Stockings, jewelry, makeup, underwear, everything.
Mine too, Alte! He does a decent job, too. Of course, as king, he thinks he has to have a say in everything including what I wear, LOL.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
IMO if a guy has a say in what you wear, then if he asks you to wear something revealing and then gets mad about it after, why ask you to wear it? That is not called attentiveness, that’s just called brainless.
terri
September 18, 2011
I rarely wear stocking, LOL. It’s waaay too hot down here for that most of the year, but my man is very opinionated about what I wear. And he’ll shop for me when he thinks I’m getting a bit away from what he likes.
Morticia
September 18, 2011
My husband has been known to buy me clothes and underwear though it hasn’t happened in a while. Probably because I won’t tell him what size I am unless it is in the single digits.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 18, 2011
“The other truth though is that I don’t know any black woman whose lived a clean and healthy lifestyle that has even a hint of a wrinkle before 45 0r 50”
Sounds interesting.
Going to check that out when encountering black women next time.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I told my husband about this thread and he said he’s on CL’s side. LOL No surprises there.
terri
September 18, 2011
Probably because I won’t tell him what size I am unless it is in the single digits.
Can’t he just look inside of the clothes you’re wearing and see what size you are?
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Alte, you should ask him if he’s going to be on CL’s side, will he work on not getting mad when another guy pays attention to you?
Morticia
September 18, 2011
I cut the tags out of most my clothes (tags are itchy).
7man
September 18, 2011
Men will not rise to a occasion not presented. Men grow by testing. So by all means ladies, do not push any boundaries that would cause your men to grow and step up and protect you. Just be nice girls and pray that he is not tempted by all those fun women not overly concerned with modesty.
CL
September 18, 2011
Well, all I know is that if my hypothetical husband were to ask to wear or not wear something, I would most likely do as he asked. I want to be attractive to him – I don’t care what others think one way or the other. If I love him, I want to please him and everyone else and their opinions can get bent. I doubt someone who loves me and cares about me would ask me to do something totally uncomfortable anyway, but I am pretty comfortable with most things and guess what? I’m a lot happier not caring what everyone else thinks than worrying about “modesty”. Like anyone will notice anyway, when you look at how people dress nowadays. So, my man wants me to wear that ridiculously short skirt that blows up in the wind? Sure thing honey!
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Wives aren’t supposed to push boundaries, that would be called disobedience. Didn’t you know that 7man?
Last time I checked, men complain about immodest women a lot, too.
chris
September 18, 2011
Alte: of course your husband is taking CLs side. He’s male: all the men apart from Eeyore (DA) are with her. If the photos you are showing are correct, he has good taste.
Terri: clothing sizes don’t mean that much — come on. I’m sure you have “small” sizes that are too big and “large sizes that are too small. ANd giving a woman something to wear that she has to diet into is needlessly cruel, even for your alpha husbands.
All the ladies: one of the advantages of shopping for you is that we can do it efficiently. Brand A, size B, style C, three of, done. Just like buying jeans — replicate the ones that fitted. Besides, each husband knows what “works” to increase desire on his wife.
No need to go to everywhere in the mall (or more time in the computer discount shop and the bookshop).
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Last time I checked, men complain about immodest women a lot, too.”
Like when?
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Ever heard of “loose cannons” Svar? LOL Men also complain about it during work, church, or even at the grocery store. Isn’t it a bit silly to get all dolled up just to get some groceries? And it looks desperate, and ridiculous.
terri
September 18, 2011
ANd giving a woman something to wear that she has to diet into is needlessly cruel, even for your alpha husbands.
My husband doesn’t do that to me, Chris. He likes me at a healthy weight but for me, that’s about a size 12 American and most of the people here would say that makes me a cow, even with my 5’9″ frame.
But I do have to zealously guard what I put in my mouth even to maintain that, LOL. The clothes that emphasize the waist actually work better on a woman with a shape like mine. De-emphasizes the hips and plays up my naturally smaller waist.
But you’re right about men shopping more efficiently. My husband seems to be able to find me things that look great on me in a fraction of the time it takes me to shop.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Terri, a size 12 at 5’9″ is NOT fat by any means.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I just got a total lecture, y’all. LOL. He’s like, “Why you wanna dress like old woman? You have a nice body, other women want body like that. You wear something tight, looks better. All the men are looking, thinking, “Wow, look at his woman. She’s a hot woman!” But my wife always dress like old woman, and then when I look at other woman, you get angry. Then you dress like that, I look at you!”
LOL Love the accent. I usually translate everything he says, but it’s more macho with the accent.
Alte
September 18, 2011
He says, “Shirt you wear right now is okay.” “This is a camisole. It’s underwear.” “Baah! Underwear. Is a nice shirt. You look good. You wear that.”
chris
September 18, 2011
@ Terri — I was once told the the ex could make it in the movies if she lost weight. US size 4 –6 (50 kilos or 105 lbs, 5’4″). And chinese, Who don’t wrinkle until they are approaching menopause.
But then I’m big… currently 240 lb, 6’2″. That is XXL or XXXL depending on brand locally. I prefer to shop in Germany where I’m on the curve.
CL
September 18, 2011
Listen to the man, Alte. Do it for your man.
chris
September 18, 2011
Alte, is he speaking Austerlich English like the Governator for real?
Alte
September 18, 2011
It’s never too hot for fishnet, and the bigger the wholes, the better. I’ve got a whole collection. Beige, black, red, yellow, etc.
7man
September 18, 2011
“To a mouse, cheese is cheese. That is why mousetraps work” – Wendell Johnson
Morticia
September 18, 2011
Yes..of course..fishnets are a must. And crotchless too, preferably.
Alte
September 18, 2011
Now he’s ticked off and telling me to wear a burqa and be done with it. LOL
laceagate
September 18, 2011
I don’t get it– he wants you to wear a camisole by itself?
chris
September 18, 2011
Alte, fishnets? This is played on broadcast TV in New Zealand… note that the boys want the beer not the model.
(NSFW in any Democratic office as will promote heterosexuality)
CL
September 18, 2011
Oh come on, poor guy just wants to see his sexy wife being sexy, sheesh! Is it really so much to ask?
Alte
September 18, 2011
Yes! One like this: http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=8054899
I’m like, “Umm… I’m practically naked.” He’s still complaining.
Alte
September 18, 2011
He said, “Are the men on my side, or what?” LOL
chris
September 18, 2011
And this beer ad is for Alte and Terri.
Please note that the scenery on this is within two hours of where I live. (Speights is the commercial beer brewed in Dunedin. There are 20 plus craft brewers, but they only sell locally)
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Okay here’s the thing— you tell him you’ll wear it out in public with your big boobies IF he agrees to not be such a pain about other men looking at you.
CL
September 18, 2011
That camisole is really tame, Alte. Big boobs or not, that wouldn’t look out of place around here. Don’t know about where you live, of course.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Me wearing a camisole by itself would be a bit much, no matter where I lived. Camisoles to me are “lingerie” so to speak.
Alte
September 18, 2011
He’s still standing here bitching about me dressing like an old woman.
CL
September 18, 2011
Then stop dressing like an old woman!! You’re what, 30? Come on, stop it!
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Alte, have you mentioned to him how you’d be willing to dress to his tastes IF he doesn’t throw a fit about other men looking?
Alte
September 18, 2011
Yes, I mentioned it. And he says, “What are you talking about? I don’t get upset. I don’t care if other men look.” Uh huh.
Alte
September 18, 2011
I told him those clothes are for teenagers, not married mothers with two kids. He says, “I didn’t know clothes come with an age-limit. You’re just worried about the women talking. Ah, she’s a slut, that girl is a slut, this woman is a slut. Women say everyone is a slut if they’re better-looking.”
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Wow I think I could smell that pile over here…
CL
September 18, 2011
I go out in the summer in stuff similar to this.
http://cn1.kaboodle.com/hi/img/2/0/0/68/b/AAAAAmcdFSsAAAAAAGiw0Q.jpg?v=1188278875000
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Clothes don’t come with an age-limit, but your age does limit what you can wear. I’m almost your age and just can’t think I can get away with what I could when I was 20.
7man
September 18, 2011
Most woman can easily wear that camisole with a sheer blouse, left unbuttoned. That is a good compromise.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Ever heard of “loose cannons” Svar? LOL Men also complain about it during work, church, or even at the grocery store. Isn’t it a bit silly to get all dolled up just to get some groceries? And it looks desperate, and ridiculous.”
Haha, yeah, I see what you mean. Dressing immodestly during work is unprofessional, at the grocery store… eh, that is kind of ridiculous, but I guess it’s okay if they’re hot. But Church is a different thing all together. Women must cover in Church: http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2007/12/chapel-veil-campaign.html
Alte
September 18, 2011
No way. Nothing above the knees and no thin straps.
Svar
September 18, 2011
“Yes..of course..fishnets are a must. And crotchless too, preferably.”
Heh heh, nice.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
A sheer blouse? As in see-through? Why bother wearing something that is see through if what is underneath cannot cover a sufficient amount? That’s like wearing a white button-up shirt with a bra underneath and then everyone can see your bra…no thank you.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
I just got a total lecture, y’all.
That German man speaks truth. Ladies, be submissive and skank it up for your husbands!
LOL Love the accent. I usually translate everything he says, but it’s more macho with the accent.
Somehow, I get the feeling that most of the conversations in your house are in German.
CL
September 18, 2011
And I picked up my kids from school like that too! Who the hell cares what other people think? Your husband is right, it’s all about what other bitches think. Well, excuse me, but, fuck ‘em!
Svar
September 18, 2011
“He says, “I didn’t know clothes come with an age-limit. You’re just worried about the women talking. Ah, she’s a slut, that girl is a slut, this woman is a slut. Women say everyone is a slut if they’re better-looking.””
He has a point.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Alte, I think your “rules” are stricter than mine are, and mine are rather strict. I have allowances for layering, however.
Alte
September 18, 2011
We speak mostly German, yes. I translate to write it here, but he’s speaking English now because of the thread. He says he wants everyone to know that I’m a total prude who just wants to wear my burqa and pray the rosary all day.
Just be nice girls and pray that he is not tempted by all those fun women not overly concerned with modesty.
How can anyone be too concerned with modesty?
CL
September 18, 2011
The nice thing about not living under Sharia law is you can wear what you bloody well like.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
He says he wants everyone to know that I’m a total prude who just wants to wear my burqa and pray the rosary all day.
But Alte, how could you possibly be so talented, to blog and to also pray the rosary all day with all those beads?! LMAO!
Too concerned with modesty is when you have people advocating for wearing box potato sacks and pretend that you are not an XX. To me that is going too far. However, not wanting to show more skin than is appropriate is reasonable, but I am one of those prudes. Eh.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
He says he wants everyone to know that I’m a total prude who just wants to wear my burqa and pray the rosary all day.
No burqas for Muslims, no burqas for Christians!
Tell him that the rosary is a perfect distraction for you.
Alte
September 18, 2011
He always wants me to wear short skirts, but I have dark knees from all of the bruising I got during my dance years. Never went away.
This is the first time he’s ever been interested in a thread here. LOL. CL seems to have struck a nerve. Apparently, I wear potato sacks and dress like an old woman. LOL He’s all worked up about it. He really hates my clothes.
CL
September 18, 2011
Again, who cares about the dark knees? Not your husband. That’s all that matters.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Alte, to help the dark knees since it’s winter now– ask him if he’d let you spend some money and buy Origins “Brighter by Nature” scrub pads and the lotion. Trust me– I’ve used it for discoloration and it works great. I am also sure I am darker than you, too. I would also use lemon juice with baking soda.
You’re going to have to post some examples of these clothes. Sheesh, no wonder he sides with CL on this. If you truly wear potato sack clothing and have no fashion sense (not insulting you) I can see why he gets so worked up.
Didn’t you do a post back on your old blog about how you went through your closet and only have a few changes of clothes, as your “uniform”? Maybe that wasn’t such a great idea…:P
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
Um, shouldn’t the two of you be, you know, doing stuff instead of dealing with a bunch of fellow trad nerds?
Alte
September 18, 2011
He’s working, but this is distracting him.
CL, you still keep getting stuck in spam.
CL
September 18, 2011
I know, wtf? lol
Alte
September 18, 2011
Good night.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
Whatever it is, dark knees, skin disorder, etc., having stuff like that can make wearing revealing clothes less than fun. At least with the dark skin, there’s the possibility of lightening it. With other things, especially if it was a medical issue, I would hope a husband would have enough understanding for a wife who was self-conscious about it.
David Alexander
September 18, 2011
Lacea, you’re black?
laceagate
September 18, 2011
No DA. I thought Alte was only 1/4 black or something like that, and from that picture of herself she posted, Alte doesn’t seem to have very dark skin. So I am certain that my skin is darker than hers.
7man
September 18, 2011
Laceagate, It wouldn’t matter if he understood. If I understand your previous comment correctly, you should just be obedient.
laceagate
September 18, 2011
I don’t have to worry about being obedient with wearing clothes I think are immodest.
wifey
September 19, 2011
i am going to have to say that cl is making a lot of sense on this thread. i agree that men want a wife they can show off — in the same way that women want a husband who’s got a least a little bit of alpha in them. it’s not really about “advertising” so much as it’s about staying attractive. if you’re dressed up, looking smokin’ (and also, i’m going to have to say that i disagree with the sentiment that older women can’t be hot), and some guy who isn’t your husband takes note of that, that’s a good thing! not because you’re “advertising what you’re not selling,” but because it’s an affirmation for both you and your husband.
obviously, that should not be interpreted as “dress like a hooker wherever you go,” but rather that you should avoid slumping over, and playing down your attractive traits. that doesn’t mean you need to show everything off, just that this:
should be avoided, unless you happen to be starring in a duckling-turns-swan teen movie.
–
i guess i don’t really understand why it’s a problem if you don’t dress like a frump, and then other guys notice. in fact, that some of you think it’s a problem makes me wonder about the foundation of the relationship — after all, it’s not like you live in some tribal world in which some guy can club you over the head and whisk you away. so if some guy hits on you — so what? all you need to do is politely tell him that you’re taken. my husband (obviously) has no issue with guys hitting on me, for a couple of reasons. first of all, why would he? it’s not like they have some sort of chance. if a guy asks for my phone number, it’s not like i’m going to give it to him. etc. second, he actually likes having a wife that other men find attractive.
again, this shouldn’t be read as “dress like a slut” more just dress like a normal person, play up your attractive features, and don’t try to erase your sexuality.
wifey
September 19, 2011
this.
CL
September 19, 2011
Yes, wifey gets it.
chris
September 19, 2011
Folks, isn’t modest and immodest a function of task, climate and culture? I don’t think anyone would complain about shorts for running and playing tennis in summer, but in winter you’d want at least trackpants/tights to do the same activity.
I don’t think Alte is about wearing sacks, but she does not want to look like a guidette. I don’t think her husband wants to look like a guido, either. Besides, she’s young… and should enjoy wearing pretty things. Which was the idea of the thread.
WIth the exception of Texas (which is simply Haaawt) most of the US is such that layering is appropriate for three seasons of the year…
Svar
September 19, 2011
“WIth the exception of Texas (which is simply Haaawt) most of the US is such that layering is appropriate for three seasons of the year…”
Yep. Girls here usually wear short-shorts or short-skirts. It’s great, haha.
David Alexander
September 19, 2011
but she does not want to look like a guidette.
You say that like there’s something wrong with that.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“I don’t think her husband wants to look like a guido, either.”
He’s German and from what Alte told us, red-head. He can’t look like a guido. Imagine a red-head spraying himself with orange-in-a-can. He’d look even more ridiculous than a guido.
I really don’t like guidos.
David Alexander
September 19, 2011
I really don’t like guidos.
As a Long Islander, I’ll note that they have a lock on the best looking women, so if you see some, that means their attractive women are around too. The downside is that they’re rather boorish. Outside of there subculture, nobody really like them, and while Jersey Shore comes across as a fun joke, to some, it’s a slice of the nightmare that they deal with on a perpetual basis.
CAB
September 19, 2011
I told him those clothes are for teenagers, not married mothers with two kids. He says, “I didn’t know clothes come with an age-limit. You’re just worried about the women talking. Ah, she’s a slut, that girl is a slut, this woman is a slut. Women say everyone is a slut if they’re better-looking.”
Clothes don’t come with an age-limit, but your age does limit what you can wear. I’m almost your age and just can’t think I can get away with what I could when I was 20.
This isn’t really talking about modesty anymore, though, is it? There’s avoiding being too revealing because you think men will like it a little too much (modesty), and then there’s avoiding being too revealing because you think men won’t (anything from insecurity to prudence, depending). If something isn’t immodest for a teenager, why is it immodest for a thirty-year old? Am I just missing something?
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
“…from that picture of herself she posted, Alte doesn’t seem to have very dark skin…”
Sure hope that wasn’t the same pic she sent her husband the other day.
terri
September 19, 2011
…from that picture of herself she posted, Alte doesn’t seem to have very dark skin…
Her skin isn’t very dark, but it isn’t nearly as pale as the picture she posted, either. She looks Mexican or possibly biracial to me from the better pictures that I’ve seen of her. Very pretty.
this shouldn’t be read as “dress like a slut” more just dress like a normal person, play up your attractive features, and don’t try to erase your sexuality.
I agree with Wifey on this point. One of the things that makes this sticky for women who care about modesty (and I do) is that you have to learn to tune out the shrill voices in the church that place all the responsibility on women to out the fire of a man’s lust. The pressure can be intense in some circles.
I had to learn to do that. It used to really bug me to be in the grocery store or at the library and see a man look twice at my chest. Like it was my fault because my shirts aren’t baggy enough even though I am perfectly covered up and my clothes aren’t skin tight. The fact of the matter is that my husband doesn’t like me in baggy clothes and he really doesn’t have a problem with things that the modesty police have declared off limits (tank tops, sundresses, etc.).
I’m not a proponent of dresses only, but I have found that skirts help balance things out a bit so that I’m not as self-conscious about being immodest as I would be if I were in a more clingy top and a pair of jeans.
Alte
September 19, 2011
He was tearing up the closet last night. I’m trying, but geez.
If something isn’t immodest for a teenager, why is it immodest for a thirty-year old?
Teenagers usually aren’t very curvy, so they look merely “cute” in outfits where a thin but fully-formed woman looks like, “Daaaaaaamn!” That’s the difference. It’s not that I think men won’t like it, but that I’m afraid that they’ll like it too much. I don’t know why that bothers me so much, but it does. At least we can agree on skirts instead of pants.
It’s just that I put effort into looking “cute but inconspicuous” and he doesn’t like it. He said, “If I wanted a woman that nobody notices, then why marry one who looks like you?” Good point. I’d never thought of it that way before.
terri
September 19, 2011
It’s just that I put effort into looking “cute but inconspicuous” and he doesn’t like it.
Trying to look inconspicuous is a bit over the top, Alte. I agree with him on that, even if I think some of what he wants you to wear is immodest according to the picture you posted above.
But if he’s jealous, he needs to be aware of what he is asking of you. And he should respect your religious convictions as well. I refuse to believe that there is no happy medium that you can both be satisfied with.
Joy
September 19, 2011
CL, I agree with you. My boyfriend likes me in dresses and skirts that are feminine but modest. The way I dress is what attracted him in the first place–modest and classic. I don’t do cleavage or skin tight but not baggy either. Classic in an Audrey Hepburn sort of way. I am quite sure that once we get married, he won’t want me to stop looking pretty. How I look when we are out in public reflects on him.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“He was tearing up the closet last night. I’m trying, but geez”
Tja Mädel, in guten wie in schlechten Zeiten….
“If I wanted a woman that nobody notices, then why marry one who looks like you?” Good point. I’d never thought of it that way before.”
Aus genetischen Gründen würde ich sagen.
wifey
September 19, 2011
exactly. i imagine a guy would feel really, well, insulted if his wife were to suddenly stop trying to be attractive once they got married.
before i got married, i dressed to play up my best features. yes, i’m more “immodest” than the rest of you, so let’s just say that before i got married i dressed very sexily. now that i’m married, i dress, well, exactly the same. and honestly, what kind of message would i be sending my husband if i stopped dressing sexily the second we got married? that i’m willing to get all dolled up for the world, but i won’t do it now that i’m with the one person who matters the most? i imagine he’d run for the hills.
it’s similar to “being slutty” and then trying to take it slow once you’re in a relationship. hypocritical, and insulting. now that i’m with someone i care about, i’m going to hold back. one of my close friends had a sort of “friends with benefits” (but she’s very religious, so all they did was kiss) relationship with this guy she sort of liked. they finally decided to take the plunge and he was all “i don’t think we should kiss anymore, not until we get to know each other better, let’s take it slow, etc.” she was understandably insulted — after all, he was saying he had no problem kissing her when she was “just a friend,” but now that he actually cared about her, he didn’t want to share that with her. come on.
Alte
September 19, 2011
You guys, I’m dressing the way I was dressing when we met. I didn’t “frump down” on him.
Aus genetischen Gründen würde ich sagen.
??
Alte
September 19, 2011
Alte, is he speaking Austerlich English like the Governator for real?
His English is actually very good, but when he gets upset it degrades down to Gubernatorish. I think it’s cute. Especially when he starts waving his hands around and acting all dramatic like an Italian. Definitely some Roman blood in there, with that nose and that temperament.
Y’all, he actually went down to the basement at 1 am and dug out all of the clothes I was “storing” down there. “Where the clothes I buy? I like clothes I buy better.” We do have some outfits that we can compromise over, but there aren’t enough of them to make a complete wardrobe. I have one on today, and he was like, “Finally!” The good thing is that he does like leggings.
But, you know, the last time I wore a compromise outfit he told me my butt looked big. So, if he wants me to dress more revealing he should act a bit more enthusiastic about what is being revealed. He’s always negging me and teasing me, completely oblivious to the fact that it took all of my nerves just to get dressed in that stuff. I don’t think he realizes how self-conscious I am about my figure.
Alte
September 19, 2011
He did make the point that some women pretend to be modest when they’re just unattractive.
He hasn’t negged me in a while. I think it’s finally dawned on him that it’s counter-productive. With negging you really have to strike a balance, or she’ll end up feeling so low that she just wants to put on her burqa and cry.
terri
September 19, 2011
But, you know, the last time I wore a compromise outfit he told me my butt looked big. So, if he wants me to dress more revealing he should act a bit more enthusiastic about what is being revealed. He’s always negging me and teasing me, completely oblivious to the fact that it took all of my nerves just to get dressed in that stuff. I don’t think he realizes how self-conscious I am about my figure.
You sound so white, LOL! (that’s a joke y’all). But seriously, self conscious about a curvy behind? It’s genetic dear. Surely he saw this before he married you.
Of course, I can see why your husband’s words would make you self conscious. My husband used to do that about my hips no matter how thin I was but he doesn’t anymore unless it’s too offer a compliment. He’s not as tone deaf as he used to be so if something really bothers me he tries to be sensitive even if he doesn’t always succeed at it.
Just wear the clothes he likes that you feel are not blatantly immodest even if they are more figure flattering than you’d prefer. But when he makes statements that feel derogatory, make a point of gently pointing out that it’s those kinds of statements that make you want to revert to the clothes he hates. And after three strikes, switch back. When he complains, gently and respectfully remind him of what he said the last time you wore the form fitting skirt and then wear what he wants you to wear. Again after three comments that make you feel your butt is too fat, switch back. Let this be your M.O.
(Of course, I am assuming here that you’re not actually letting your behind get too fat, LOL!)
I can almost guarantee you that if you stick with this, the comments will change in tone. He’ll still remark about your butt, but in a way that makes you feel sexier, not fatter.
Alte
September 19, 2011
Yes, exactly! You get what I mean, Terri. Like last night he pulled out that longish-but-tight skirt and I said, “Why should I wear that? Last time I wore that you said my ass looks huge.” He was dumbfounded, “Don’t you know how sexy you are?” What does he expect? That he’s going to make fun of me and that’ll make me feel sexy? That’s not the way women work.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“??”
Ganz einfach:Hübsche Frau resultiert in besser aussehenden Kindern.
Alte
September 19, 2011
Of course, I am assuming here that you’re not actually letting your behind get too fat
It’s not too fat, it’s just the way it is. There’s nothing I can do about it. I’m pear-shaped, even though I’m relatively thin.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“acting all dramatic like an Italian”
Theatralic like a woman?
Alte
September 19, 2011
He’s usually quite calm and cool, but he totally went off yesterday. Pulling things out of my closet, “You look old in this. You look pregnant in this. And this… ugh… not this.” And when he was done there were like five things still hanging there. And then he said, “Where the clothes I buy you?” and dug them out of the basement. It was total theater, I swear. My closet has been a war zone ever since we started dating.
terri
September 19, 2011
It’s not too fat, it’s just the way it is. There’s nothing I can do about it. I’m pear-shaped, even though I’m relatively thin.
I know, Alte. I’m pear shaped too. And you’re much smaller than I am. I look the picture you showed me where you described yourself as “fat.” I just felt the need to add a qualifier because I wanted to make clear that I am not attempting to be an apologist for women who let themselves go and then feel hurt and offended when their man complains about it.
Have to cover all the bases around here, you know.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
He’s acting dramatic, he shows much interest in women stuff…Hmmmm
Alte
September 19, 2011
Ha ha, SLF. Nice try.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“Ha ha, SLF. Nice try”
You are so obviously in denial.
terri
September 19, 2011
It was total theater, I swear. My closet has been a war zone ever since we started dating.
i can’t say we’ve had much closet drama because my husband doesn’t get very dramatic but he will say if something doesn’t look good. His silence is usually a good sign. That, and he’s much more “gropey” when I’m wearing something he really likes me in.
Alte
September 19, 2011
See, the thing with my husband is that he rarely compliments and he often complains, cause I so rarely wear something that he likes. He just tolerates most of my clothes. He’s complimented me more in the past two weeks than in the previous two years.
You are so obviously in denial.
And you are so obviously envious. Now, stop trolling.
Alte
September 19, 2011
Another thing is just the temperature in the house. He’s always too warm, so he keeps it at 68 degrees and I freeze. I was wearing the camisole because the wood stove was burning, but when it went out I put on a sweater. In winter, I’m in like three or four layers of clothes, and then he complains that I’m a mummy while he wanders around in t-shirts and shorts. But I’m cold! When he’s out of the house, I raise the temp and take off some layers.
Chels
September 19, 2011
This whole conversation is just shocking to me, as my bf really couldn’t care less about what I wear–whenever I spend money, he gets in a hissy fit about how I should be saving my money and not spend it on useless things. And once he saw how much my hair products and make up cost, he just said that I should cut my hair short so I don’t need fancy shampoos and mousses for my curly hair (like that’s ever going to happen, and it makes him a hypocrite since he likes long hair) and that I don’t need makeup; which makes me think that he’s just very, very confused.
terri
September 19, 2011
Another thing is just the temperature in the house.
This does make a difference. We live where it’s almost always warm. Sometimes my husband keeps the house a little cooler at night but we keep our thermostat at a nice high temperature (78) so as to avoid a $400 electricity bill during the summer. Factor in that in this heat most women are wearing as little clothing as they can get away with, and it really doesn’t take much to look modest in comparison.
In fact, I have found that being tastefully dressed in clothes that flatter the figure without being overtly immodest tend to attract more attention than plunging necklines and short shorts.
ritmo rioplatense
September 19, 2011
Alte, I think that this whole issue of “compromise outfits” is a deliberate attempt to avoid the greater issues in play here. From what I gather in your previous posts, you’re basically sequestered in your home by a man who is (whether deliberately or not) emotionally suffocating. Not suffocating as in strangling, but suffocating as in “not giving you any fresh emotional oxygen”. That sounds like a very depressing situation. So, what it seems we have here is a bit of passive-aggressive retaliation; like, “ok buddy, if you don’t even trust me to go to the library by myself, then those clothes go into the basement.”
Unlike a lot of the other guys on this thread, I don’t think you’re necessarily in the wrong here, given the situation. I think that your, um, hiding your light under a bushel is … at best not ideal, and at worst counter to the principle of wifely submission. But, it’s a valid counter to behavior on his own part that, if described accurately, is, well, ridiculous and insecure (even more so if you don’t actually live in the ghetto).
So, next time he complains about your clothes, you should raise the issue! It would be sensible enough to bring it up in context, like, “I feel like I’m locked up in this home, I can’t even go to a book club. So, accordingly, I feel like locking my body up, because that’s the way my whole mood is right now.” Because this is what I strongly suspect is going on anyway, at least subconsciously; but even if it isn’t it still might make the point in a non antagonistic way. It seems that there’s enough antagonism to go around right now, and also that your husband is not the type to throw caution to the wind and go for a nice hard grudge f**k, so there’s a logical argument for you to try instead.
–
Finally, when I tell my wife her ass looks big that’s one of the sincerest compliments I can give her (you know us latin men) Maybe that’s how he means it? maybe not. but maybe.
7man
September 19, 2011
He’s complimented me more in the past two weeks than in the previous two years.
Alte,
Keep it up! He is telling you exactly how he needs you to help him fight his battle when he goes to Spain. Make sure he has some great mental images of his lady waiting at home. You should be willing to be a bit uncomfortable for the sake of your marriage.
I’ll be bold and say your post today is self-serving because it is all about what you are willing to do and how you should be valued and loved for those things. I’m sure he does love you for those things, because he is not stupid. But what he wants is a wife that is beautiful and this means that he wants others to know she is beautiful too. An alpha kind of man needs this.
Previously you said how he doesn’t like when you dress a bit shapelier because you are noticed. That sounds like projection or your misinterpretation. I think it was you not liking being noticed and not his feeling at all. He did set you straight about this a couple of times, which you reported.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“And you are so obviously envious.”
Hö?
“Now, stop trolling”
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6cIqUo0HFvE/TcJgkPXbAUI/AAAAAAAAAIg/843I0KM__z0/s640/kittelsen-sad-troll.jpg
Alte
September 19, 2011
Chels, yes, they are very confused. And he does care about what you wear. Men really notice clothes. Mine used to complain about the money I spent on clothes until he got tired of seeing me in cheap clothes.
Ritmo totally gets it. Exactly. Why should I dress sexily when he’s acting so insecure about it?
I’m sure he does love you for those things, because he is not stupid.
To be honest, if I put the kids in school and lazed around all day looking hot, and then whipped up something luxurious for dinner or hung out with him in cafes, he’d prefer it. I’ve been doing less cleaning and stuff lately, dressing more sexily, and chatting more with him, and he’s been happier with me. He’s not really big on Suzy Homemaker Homeschooling Frump. He says that he can hire a maid, but he can’t hire a prostitute.
I think one of the reasons he’s not so crazy about me hanging out with these types of women is that he thinks they’re influencing me to become more like them (which they are), and less like I used to be. If my friends were “cooler”, then he’d be less negative about it. Not that he wants me to have immoral friends, but these women are sort of Churchian and he can’t stand that. In Germany, my friends were “cooler” and he encouraged me to hang out with them. He even sent me on a train alone to a different city so that I could meet up with one for the weekend, last time we were over there. We were going out partying and stuff, and he was like, “Yay! Finally someone normal! Someone who doesn’t stop to pray 80 times a day while adjusting her floor-length jumper.”
I was thinking that he “locks me up”, but since my daughter’s been in school in the afternoons (started two weeks ago), I’ve been going out with my son for lunch, working out at the gym, shopping, etc. and he’s happy about the change.
He’s been looking at German job advertisements again. I think he wants to escape this place before my transformation to the Virgin Mary is complete. Or, as he so delicately put it, “Nobody wants to shag a saint.” He always teases me about how Churchian I am. He wants a moral wife, but not a Christian nerd. Like, he was enthusiastic about the book club until he heard that we were reading The Divine Comedy. He was like, “Can’t you read something normal for once?”
I guess he has the polar-opposite problem as most men have.
Alte
September 19, 2011
An alpha kind of man needs this.
I think this is true. My father’s like this, as well, as are all of my cousins. They all agree with him that I’m a total frumpy Churchian. Even my mother and older female relatives complain about my clothes. MY MIL too.
His brother was over here, and we were going out on a double-date and his girlfriend was all dolled-up. I walked out in my modest clothes and his brother was like, “Aren’t you going to put on something nice?” My husband was like, “She’s wearing her birth control again.”
terri
September 19, 2011
Sounds to me like you may be overdoing the modesty thing, as much as I hate to say it, Alte. I know some would say that it’s not possible to overdo modesty, but I think your husband’s desires should play some role in what you wear.
Alte
September 19, 2011
It’s this place though, Terri. I don’t mind doing it in Baltimore or Madrid or Germany, but around here I stick out like a sore thumb just because I’m not wearing the traditional Christian burqa. My husband says I’m doing the men here a favor. LOL
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“here I stick out like a sore thumb just because I’m not wearing the traditional Christian burqa”
That goes a bit into pseudo-psych, but could it be that you subconciously don’t want to encourage your neighbour?
Chels
September 19, 2011
What do you dress like Alte? Post a pic, because from what you’re saying, you dress very frumpy. I hope it’s not those long dresses that look like nightgowns or what the Amish wear.
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
Finally, when I tell my wife her ass looks big that’s one of the sincerest compliments I can give her (you know us latin men)
White men are the same, stereotypes to the contrary. Only the gay fashion industry promotes hipless women; heterosexual white men love “hippy” women as much as blacks and latins do.
The fashion industry problem is explored extensively here: http://www.femininebeauty.info (WARNING: NSFW, for scientific rather than prurient reasons, but still, NSFW.)
7man
September 19, 2011
Alte, what is the quality of those marriages around you where the wives are wearing “Christian burqas”? Are those women happy? Do they feel desired and treasured by their husbands? Or are they acting like they are religiously and morally superior to their husbands because of how they rigidly hold to their “standards” regardless of what their husbands think?
It seems to me tha they are following the 11th Commandment – “Thou shall be true to thyself.”
Alte
September 19, 2011
I have a sweater-dress like this that he really likes, but it’s very clingy.

He likes stuff like this (he likes long and short skirts):


or this:
I have a miniskirt like this, that he likes:

To me, this is all too sexy. He says it’s just normal.
Chels
September 19, 2011
I like your husband’s taste better than yours–that sweater dress is not for going out, it’s for church, work or something.
Alte
September 19, 2011
Are those women happy?
They seem happy to me. They’re very busy.
Do they feel desired and treasured by their husbands?
They don’t really talk about their husbands, so I don’t really know. I think they find it strange that I talk about him all the time.
Chels
September 19, 2011
I guess that dress could be sexy if you pair it with high heels.
terri
September 19, 2011
You know Van, it’s pretty much universally acknowledged that white men prefer skinny women. And that’s perfectly cool as white women seem to be uniquely obsessed with being skinny.
That said, I think you have a point. I actually wrote a post here on the subject you raised:
http://traditionalchristianity.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/straight-men-allow-their-perception-of-beauty-to-be-shaped-by-gay-men/
The reality is that most men are far more forgiving of a curvaceous woman than you’d think if you spend too much time in the conservative/alt. right/manosphere sections of the Internet. I once stumbled on a post where a there was a picture of a woman who was clearly not fat, one of those women who are simply famous for being famous. I don’t know her name but she’s always staring at me from the covers of magazines when I go to the grocer.
Anyway, the comments section was full of derogatory comments about her big behind.This was a small woman, not even averaged sized. So it maybe that nerds like skinny women, I don’t know, but Alte’s husband is white and nerdy (no offense Alte my husband’s a nerd, too).
Of course, at the risk of being redundant, he knew he was marrying a woman whose ancestry skews toward a more curvaceous figure than your average German woman.
Alte
September 19, 2011
I wear the dress with my high boots. He likes that. He has a thing for turtlenecks.
Chels
September 19, 2011
white men prefer skinny women.
I don’t think they do, they don’t want skin and bones, they want someone with a bit of meat on her bones–instead of a size 2, they prefer a size 6 or 8.
David Alexander
September 19, 2011
I like your husband’s taste better than yours–that sweater dress is not for going out, it’s for church, work or something.
I think Alte has a bit of the ugly duckling syndrome, and she’s not used to the idea of men actually looking at her. I also suspect that her large boobies make dressing up a bit harder for her as the same dress doesn’t look as “flat” as it would for a woman with say, B cups.
To me, this is all too sexy. He says it’s just normal.
I’d agree with him. It’s rather normal to me, but I’m used to porn.
Alte
September 19, 2011
I like the skirts, but I feel half-naked in tops like that. I’m more like this:

I wear the camisoles like this, but even that makes me nervous:

I used to have a dress like this, but he HATED it. He’d always ask me if it came with a free coffin:

Chels
September 19, 2011
Those tops can work with a short skirt but that dress is just horrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid!
Alte
September 19, 2011
All of the women at co-op wear dresses like that. And jumpers.
Chels
September 19, 2011
All of the women at co-op wear dresses like that. And jumpers.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww*100000000000
David Alexander
September 19, 2011
All of the women at co-op wear dresses like that. And jumpers.
In other words, he thinks you’re becoming like those women, and he wants to go back to the heimat where the even the rural small town magically dress like in the way that he wants?
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
I think what a lot of folks are wishing for, here, is an outfit that will cause their husbands to drool over them, but somehow not catch the eyes of other men. Sorry, that’s just not possible. If you look good to him, you look good to all men.
As for the pics Alte just posted — ALL of those outfits would look absolutely dynamite on a woman with a good WHR, and none of them would look good on a fatty or an anorexic. With a sexy body and a sexy walk, you don’t need to show any actual skin to drive men insane.
Some of the hottest women I’ve ever seen, have been Orthodox Jewish women and Mennonite women who wore ankle-length dresses (and, I might add, headscarves!)… but had rockin’ physiques underneath and carried themselves very sexily. Far superior to the miniskirt-and-muffintop crowd!
7man
September 19, 2011
A clear example of Frump Attire!
terri
September 19, 2011
That dress at the bottom, UGH! I can’t believe you ever wore such a thing.
The outfits from above, the ones you say your husband likes are similar to what I would wear (I love those skirts and own a few myself) except I don’t do spaghetti strap tank tops. The tank tops I wear are the kinds you could wear a bra underneath and not see the bra straps (I loathe visible bra straps).
I actually really like the outfit with the capris, too. I have one very similar but I can’t wear it now because the pants have gotten too big and my husband complains all day when I wear clothes that are too big. How awful they look. The kicker is that right now I don’t have it in the budget to shop for clothes right now plus I want to lose 15 more pounds which makes me feel like I don’t need to be shopping just yet.
I suspect he’s going to present me with some great pieces for Christmas. I’m kind of banking on it, in fact.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“it’s pretty much universally acknowledged that white men prefer skinny women”
So?
By whom?
Alte
September 19, 2011
It was very comfortable. I had a whole collection of dresses is that sort of caliber, some with pretty prints, some plain. He hated all of them.
He just bought me a sweater like this


and some like this:
but I usually buy them looser.
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
That dress belongs on a prison matron.
I’m most like the girls in the first picture, except without all those crazy colors.
Chels
September 19, 2011
Alte needs new friends :s
terri
September 19, 2011
LOL. Excuse me CC? What “crazy colors?”
CL
September 19, 2011
That blue dress is HIDEOUS! I wouldn’t even wear it in a coffin. All the other stuff that you say is too sexy is not very sexualised at all – that is all my idea of modest. Try to get comfortable in what your husband bought you. None if it screams “teh sex” and it all looks tasteful and attractive.
Alte
September 19, 2011
In other words, he thinks you’re becoming like those women, and he wants to go back to the heimat where the even the rural small town magically dress like in the way that he wants?
He does not like how the women here dress. At all. Whenever we’re in Annapolis or Europe, he takes me shopping. It’s not cheap stuff, either. That “your ass is huge” skirt costed $65. It’s not that he picks out ugly clothes, or anything, or that it looks bad on me. Okay, that sounds weird, but I just don’t like to be stared at. That’s why I always wear my glasses, even though I only need them for reading and driving.
Chels
September 19, 2011
Terri, magenta is the color of the devil, didn’t you know? lol
CL
September 19, 2011
CC, crazy colours? I wondered why 7man said you seemed monochromatic, now it all makes sense! LOL
My winter coat is bright pink, because winter is dull enough and for some reason everyone wears black or something dark and dull. God made all these beautiful colours!
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
You know Van, it’s pretty much universally acknowledged that white men prefer skinny women.
Yes, that is one of the most profoundly mistaken stereotypes about us. A few white men are like that, not most. I have a level of internal access to white culture that you do not — I see and hear their unguarded, drunken moments, that women and nonwhites never see — and I can tell you that among white men, the “hips” preference is FAR more prevalent than the media let on. As a famous country western song put it, “They hate to see her go, but they love to watch her leave…”
Yes, we hate fatties. We have far less tolerance of that, than other ethnicities. And it’s true that white female fatties use “curvy” in Internet personal ads as a dishonest synonym for fat, which only confuses things more. But well filled out @$$, is not “fat”, provided it is topped with a narrow waist. It’s all about the WHR.
The reality is that most men are far more forgiving of a curvaceous woman than you’d think if you spend too much time in the conservative/alt. right/manosphere sections of the Internet.
Forgiving isn’t quite the right word. Worship is closer to it. (Okay, okay, veneration.. don’t stone me for idolatry.)
I once stumbled on a post where a there was a picture of a woman who was clearly not fat, one of those women who are simply famous for being famous….the comments section was full of derogatory comments about her big behind. So it maybe that nerds like skinny women, I don’t know, but Alte’s husband is white and nerdy
It’s a testosterone thing. Ultramale types — rednecks and nerds — definitely go for women with curves. Once upon a time I was trying to convince a girl I was dating, that her lovely hips (which she hated) were actually her best feature. During the discussion, she pointed out that upperclass liberal white men tended to reject her on that basis, whereas, “blacks, Mexicans, and rednecks love them!” I told her that the rich liberal types who didn’t like her hips, were a bunch of ph@gs. Her response was interesting: She said that the one boyfriend she had, who had expressed dislike for her big hips, later on confessed to being bisexual! QED
terri
September 19, 2011
It’s not cheap stuff, either.
My husband always spends more on clothes for me than I am willing to spend on myself. He says I am too cheap when I shop. Then he insists that I go online and look for clearance prices if possible when I buy his clothes. He’s very funny that way
Terri, magenta is the color of the devil, didn’t you know? lol
No, I didn’t. But thanks for the heads up.
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
magenta is the color of the devil
If you saw it on me you’d think it was.
I just don’t do color – shell pink is extreme for me. I just looked in my closet – except for a few scarves and a pair of red velvet shoes I wear during the holidays, it’s all neutral. Black, white, gray, brown, taupe, cream. There’s a whackadoodle navy blazer in there but that’s for when it’s “cold” outside. I love texture – I have stripes and herringbone and plaid (one plaid has a red line, but that’s it), but virtually no color.
Alte
September 19, 2011
My husband is very reluctant to buy himself anything. Shopping for him is like pulling teeth.
He says that he likes my butt and was just joking. “C’mon, can’t you take a joke?” Sometimes. Sometimes not.
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
lol CL, I am! I’ve been outed by an internet stranger. What is the world coming to??
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
OH WAIT – I found something – my trenchcoat is a color called peacock – it’s iridescent black with a teal under sheen. Does that count?
Alte
September 19, 2011
All of his ex-girlfriends are thin-but-curvy, like me. None of them are skinny. He said yesterday that I was thin.
I don’t actually know any other woman who cares so much whether or not her husband likes the way she dresses. They all just wear whatever they want. And they don’t understand why I watch my weight.
CL
September 19, 2011
my trenchcoat is a color called peacock – it’s iridescent black with a teal under sheen. Does that count?
That sounds pretty cool, but with all the other stuff it does still sound a little dark. Think of the colours on a peacock’s feathers (the bright ones!) and team it with one of those. Baby steps….
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
God made all these beautiful colours!
Well you can’t argue against that.
Alte
September 19, 2011
Try to get comfortable in what your husband bought you.
I’m not even allowed to wear such things in the school building — even outside of teaching. There’s a dress code and they’d be completely horrified.
He says it’s modest, too.
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
I also have a pink and white striped oxford cloth shirt. There, I’m practically a rainbow.
terri
September 19, 2011
I don’t actually know any other woman who cares so much whether or not her husband likes the way she dresses. They all just wear whatever they want. And they don’t understand why I watch my weight.
Yes, I could have written this. I am the only woman I am closely associated with who gives a bit of thought to whether my husband will like what I am wearing. Most women feel as long as they are clean and comfortable, that should be enough.
And as I am a black woman, I don’t need to tell you that there are many who find my constant battle with weight silly and pointless. Of course, I ran into a white acquaintance from my kids’ school at the grocery whom I hadn’t seen since last May and the first thing she said was, “You’ve lost more weight! You look really good.”
Alte
September 19, 2011
Yeah, when I was wearing a size 14 they were like, “He should love you just the way you are.” I was like, “He does love me, he just thinks I’m sexier in a 6 than in a 16.” I don’t understand why they don’t get that difference. At any rate, my German friends and relatives were encouraging me on the diet and all of the Americans (black and white) where discouraging me. But when I think that I lost half a persons’ worth of fat — that’s a good thing. I don’t understand how that’s a bad thing.
He says they’re like crabs in a bucket. If anyone is more attractive, they run over with frumpy dresses and chocolate cake, to even things out again. Needless to say, he does not approve of these women because he feels like they are trying to undermine him. My old friends just said, “Whatever floats his boat. He’s the one who has to look at you, so he should get to decide what you look like.” He was always like, “YES! What they said! Good girls!”
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
If anyone is more attractive, they run over with frumpy dresses and chocolate cake, to even things out again.
This. It’s annoying. My favorite was when my heaviest friend started lecturing me on how I was going to die of a heart attack because I gave up grains and sugar. Thanks for the support and the science lesson, I appreciate that.
Alte
September 19, 2011
LOL. Exactly. They’re all concerned that I’m going to die of anorexia. I’m thinnish, but I’m not starving to death. Geez. Are stomach rolls some sign of virtue, or something?
Alte
September 19, 2011
The “he doesn’t like my friends” thing didn’t even occur to me until last night. I got a Facebook message from my best friend in Germany (the Slovakian one) and he was like, “She’s a good friend! You need friends like that here.” I’d spend hours hanging out with her, and we’d meet up and chat over coffee and whatnot, and he didn’t care.
I do miss them a lot. They liked me better, I think, and they were more in love with their husbands. The women here are very rigid.
I noticed something else, too. We were at Book Club and they were arranging the last meetup in a special restaurant at a different time than normally. Everyone immediately agreed, except me. I wanted to ask my husband if it was alright, and they all found that sort of weird. But I found it weird that they found it weird.
terri
September 19, 2011
I do miss them a lot. They liked me better, I think, and they were more in love with their husbands. The women here are very rigid.
You will find that it is very difficult to connect with like-minded women on personal issues such as this. I have two: my SIL and my friend Jamala (I think I’ve linked to her before) who actually *get* the rationale behind my wanting to accommodate my husband in areas like this. Most simply feel that my husband is superficial and less than spiritual for even having an opinion about the way I look and a tyrant for voicing his thoughts when he does.
I was actually thinking about a post on the issue. It started out as a seed of an idea about sex -is that all we ever talk about?- but it spills over into everything. Men and women (but especially women it seems) have lost all sense of duty to our husbands and those we love.
Alte
September 19, 2011
I worry a lot about stuff my husband doesn’t care about, like washing windows and cloth diapering and homeschooling, and whatnot. He doesn’t mind as long as I don’t neglect his stuff. So when I say, “But the women at co-op won’t approve of the clothes you’ve picked out!” he’s not pleased.
terri
September 19, 2011
Oh, and how sad is it that one of my two friends who see this the way that I do is one I met online?
Thankfully her husband hails from FL and we get to see each other when they come down.
I have other friends who respect my convictions enough not to say anything out loud, but their position is pretty much, “That’s fine for you, but I’m not letting my husband rule over me like that.”
Funny that I don’t feel run over or taken advantage of.
Alte
September 19, 2011
I feel conflicted because I want everyone to like me, and they disagree on some very basic things.
terri
September 19, 2011
I feel conflicted because I want everyone to like me,
I used to be that way, but then I married a guy who could care less what anyone thinks of him (aside from his integrity of course) and who could also care less what anyone thinks of me as long as I’m a good wife to him. This meant I had to get over it.
You will too, LOL.
Chels
September 19, 2011
Alte, I’m surprised your husband hadn’t told you by now that it says in the Bible that you should submit only to him, not to your friends
cinarnation
September 19, 2011
Alte: I teach at a HS co-op as well and I’ve had to endure comments such as, “You always look like a movie star!” over and over in a not-nice voice because I wear makeup, try to dress stylishly, and fix my hair. The comments stopped after they got used to me, but American women do seem to need the women they hang out with to be at their same level physically. It bothered me a lot at first, but now I just roll with it. If you made Christian husbands safe enough to be honest I doubt they’d say they’re good with the dowdy look. I think most Christian men are uncomfortable with the unspoken suggestion that they’re perverts because they care about appearance, and it’s not a hill they want to die on anyway so they keep quiet. There’s a family in our church whose marriage is in trouble and my husband says the very first thing she needs to do is start looking nice, that her making herself ugly gives him the message that he’s unimportant.
Buy a cute jean jacket (or is that on the forbidden list?) to wear over your cute clothes while teaching and take it off before your husband gets home.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“it’s similar to “being slutty” and then trying to take it slow once you’re in a relationship. hypocritical, and insulting. ”
Yes, Wifey, I hate when it sluts snowflake like that:
http://finndistan.blogspot.com/2010/09/curse-of-special-man.html
http://solomonreborn.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/proverb-22-emotionally-single/
Being “special” is never a good idea.
Joy
September 19, 2011
“I have other friends who respect my convictions enough not to say anything out loud, but their position is pretty much, “That’s fine for you, but I’m not letting my husband rule over me like that.”
Funny that I don’t feel run over or taken advantage of.”
This. Why be married if you don’t want your husband to be a part of your life and have opinions on what you wear and when you go out and such? Having opinions and wanting some influence in your life is not taking advantage of you, it is caring about you. Heavens, are we a messed up culture or what!?!
Alte, that blue dress is frumpy! I have a denim dress that I liked until I saw myself in a photo with it on. Now I tend to only wear it around the house if nobody is going to see me in it. I like the skirt/camisole pictures but I’m too old to wear spaghetti straps. I wear sleeveless shells instead. They cover up a bit more and look pretty with flowing skirts.
laceagate
September 19, 2011
Alte, I am incredibly tempted to send you some fashion advice. OMGN. LMAO!
You see, it took me a bit to figure out what this issue was really about. If you KNOW you’ve got a hot body and your husband wants to see that, why not consider trying what your husband suggests?
One thing I know, I am NOT allowed to wear beige. EVER. I don’t have trouble acquiescing.
CL
September 19, 2011
Svar, that finndistan post… my brother has stories like that. One time this town bike he fancied told him “you’re special” and tried to get him to walk her to meet some douchebag she was going to get busy with that night. He said “eff that” to himself and left while she was taking a shower, without saying anything to her. She was never the same with him after that, lol. I can’t believe girls think this is a winning strategy! Are their heads on backwards or something? Oy vey!
CL
September 19, 2011
On the current theme here, you ladies need to stop caring what other women think. If they are insecure around you, good!
Look, I get the evil eye from wives – and it’s not because I dress like a slut. I dress in a way that shows that I am in fact a woman, but I don’t go overboard (OK, the short dress might be a bit much, but that’s on really hot days, not most of the time). When I talk to their husbands in the school yard (at the kids’ old school – the new one is Catholic and a bit different vibe), I am engaging and you can see the men enjoy talking to me, but the wives will give an evil glare. Thing is, I just find it funny, because I’m not even interested in their de-balled husbands anyway – all I’m doing is passing the time with a chat. Furthermore, the husbands who seem to be still in possession of their own balls are more relaxed and their wives don’t look at me sideways. Hmm… Observing social dynamics is fun!
Point is, dress nice and let them have to work to get up to scratch, not having them drag you down with their fat asses.
CL
September 19, 2011
the husbands who seem to be still in possession of their own balls
Interestingly, usually the blacks and Hispanics, not the white guys.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Interestingly, usually the blacks and Hispanics, not the white guys.”
There are black guys and hispanic guys in Canada? Funny, I thought Daegus was the only one
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“Interestingly, usually the blacks and Hispanics, not the white guys.”
Don’t know about America, but in Europe the Sentence:“ You are insulting my race/religion/culture”, will usually stop feminist agitation towards immigrants.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“I thought Daegus was the only one”
Only black guy, just to clarify
Svar
September 19, 2011
Of course, in Europe, most of the men who aren’t “special” realize that feminism is a load of shit and while they do not speak out against in public, they pump-n-dump sluuts and write blogs about banging whores and leftist stupidity.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“I can’t believe girls think this is a winning strategy! Are their heads on backwards or something? Oy vey!”
Obviously it works with a select few: the Special. Obviously, your brother is not really special. Good for him. But seriously, was he just trying to ride the townbike or did he really like her?
There are men that are way too beta for their own good and are willing to put up with damaged goods.
terri
September 19, 2011
Furthermore, the husbands who seem to be still in possession of their own balls are more relaxed and their wives don’t look at me sideways. Hmm… Observing social dynamics is fun!
This is true. I’ll refrain from expounding on the ethnicity of men who are most likely to have possession of their balls, CL, but observations such as the one you’ve made are frowned upon in this corner of the ‘net. True though they may be.
Point is, dress nice and let them have to work to get up to scratch, not having them drag you down
I agree. For a while I felt self-conscious because it always seemed I was overdressed compared to most of the women when I go to my kids’ school. I hear, “you like nice” a lot. The only exception is my oldest daughters friends’ mothers, who are almost all Hispanic. Those women seem to always have on makeup and nice clothes. Tight clothes, LOL, but nicer than what you see among your average American woman.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
Svar you have a idealized view of Europe.
Some aspects of feminism may be different over here(and vary from country to country) but it’s still part of the official doctrine.
CL
September 19, 2011
Terri, it was just an anecdotal observation and I’m not all that concerned with being “frowned upon” for something that innocuous. That’s the sort of thing that keeps people from finding truths and saying what they really think, so no thanks to that.
Svar, he did like her, but came to his senses. It might have just been the beer glasses at the time though, to be fair.
CL
September 19, 2011
I should add that this is amongst the more middle class types. In the lower and working classes, men generally seem to be less likely to put their balls in their wives purses.
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
For a while I felt self-conscious because it always seemed I was overdressed compared to most of the women when I go to my kids’ school. I hear, “you like nice” a lot.
Yes – last year when my son was in school this was the routine. I’d be better put together than the “professional” working moms who were picking their kids up, and you would have thought I’d shown up in a ball gown. I think that’s a weird resentment some work away moms have – it’s okay to work from home, or stay home with your kids, but you need to look like a bedraggled chimney sweep in public to have any cred. I never know what to make of that.
terri
September 19, 2011
it was just an anecdotal observation and I’m not all that concerned with being “frowned upon” for something that innocuous.
Oh, I’ve read enough from you to know that you’re not concerned with such trivialities, CL. I kind of meant that tongue-in-cheek. I actually agree with you because in my life I have rarely sensed the level of beta-tude lamented online in the black marriages I have witnessed.
In my whole life, I can think of maybe one or two black marriages like that. And when you consider the reputation often ascribed to black women, that’s saying something. Now some of the more ball-busting married sistas I know give their man a serious run for his money. But when the rubber meets the road, and the dust settles, she gets in her place and his position as the man is clear.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“but observations such as the one you’ve made are frowned upon in this corner of the ‘net”
Don’t be ridiculous.
The Blogmaster here identifies herself as black and you have posted often enough about the supposed physical superiority of black women.
Playing the oppresed one isn’t that convincing.
terri
September 19, 2011
SLF,
I’m not playing the “oppressed one.”
See my above comment. I wasn’t serious when I said that. I have never claimed black women were physically superior. In fact I have said repeatedly that black women are far more likely to be fat.
The part about aging and wrinkles is just true. I think it’s the combination of tighter skin and more melanin, but whatever it is, the wrinkles start about 10 years later than on many other ethnicity of women.
I never meant to imply superiority. Heck, I hate that I can only eat 1400 calories a day, so I don’t feel physically superior one little bit while I’m starving, LOL.
terri
September 19, 2011
I used to think I wanted to be like Ernestine Shepherd, but I don’t want to work that hard, LOL
She’s 73.
Learner
September 19, 2011
Alte, From the examples you gave about what your husband likes versus what you prefer for the most part (spaghetti straps are tough if you have a fuller bust…I go with Terri’s idea of thicker straps that cover bra straps too) it seems his tastes are not that immodest. And, wow, that denim dress is hideous!
I agree with CL…I love to wear beautiful colors.
One of the black ladies used to work with said “black don’t crack” when asked how she had such smooth skin in her 50′s
Actually if I am remembering correctly I believe it is because the epidermis is thicker in black skin, then asian skin, then white skin is the thinnest….thus it’s propensity to show wrinkles and lines earlier.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
Hear, hear, S-L-F! I’m dark-skinned but not thin-skinned (heh); I think grown-ups should be able to comfortable discuss certain obvious racial and ethnic differences without fear of giving offense; if the people in question are not known to be bigoted, what’s to worry about?
Will S.
September 19, 2011
Oh, it was a joke being made; never mind, my bad, lol.
Alte
September 19, 2011
Terri,
When the Hunger Times come, we’ll be sitting pretty while all the skinny chicks starve. LOL That’s what I tell myself.
Buy a cute jean jacket (or is that on the forbidden list?) to wear over your cute clothes while teaching and take it off before your husband gets home.
I put a light cardigan on.
I am engaging and you can see the men enjoy talking to me, but the wives will give an evil glare.
Yeah, same here. Like I was talking to someone at a performance intermission, and then I went to talk to some of the women and they said I talked to him like he was my husband. I was like, “Huh?” We were just having a normal conversation. Even my husband wouldn’t have minded that.
I get the “Wow, why are you so dressed up?” thing a lot. “You look nice.” “Going somewhere special?” And they say that everytime they see me, week after week, month after month.
I’m leaving for my mother’s house. Maybe I’ll go shopping for something that doesn’t make him retch, or something. Surprise him when I get back tomorrow night.
I was thinking about it some more, and I think what bothers him the most is that my libido tends to change with my clothes. I don’t tend to want to have sex unless I’m feeling sexy, and I just don’t feel sexy in my Church Lady clothes. It’s some weird psychological-thing. But who’s thinking of giving some oral when they’re dressed up like Mother Teresa?
terri
September 19, 2011
I put a light cardigan on.
But the jean jacket adds something to the cami-top and skirt combination that a light cardigan doesn’t. Old women are more likely to wear light cardigans. The jean jacket is better, Alte.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“think grown-ups should be able to comfortable discuss certain obvious racial and ethnic differences without fear of giving offense;”
Have I claimed otherwise?
Alte
September 19, 2011
I used to have one that he liked, but then I left it in Germany. Maybe I’ll get something else. Hm. The clothes always seemed sort of slutty-looking to me. Like all of the stretchy knits.
terri
September 19, 2011
It’s okay SLF. My attempt at levity fell humiliatingly flat so I take the blame for the ensuing confusion.
It is perfectly okay to discuss racial differences here, good and bad. We’re not politically correct. Not even a little.
Again, sorry for the misunderstanding, CL and Will. And SLF.
CL
September 19, 2011
I’m leaving for my mother’s house. Maybe I’ll go shopping for something that doesn’t make him retch, or something. Surprise him when I get back tomorrow night.
This! Get something you know he’ll like, even if you have to fight yourself to buy it. Trust the goons on the Internet!
terri
September 19, 2011
I was thinking about it some more, and I think what bothers him the most is that my libido tends to change with my clothes. I don’t tend to want to have sex unless I’m feeling sexy, and I just don’t feel sexy in my Church Lady clothes. It’s some weird psychological-thing.
You know, I always wondered about that! When I would read articles online written by women obsessed with modesty and selling modest sleepwear and modest this and modest that, I always asked myself:
“How do they switch gears when they’re alone with their husband and it’s time to shed inhibitions?”
If what you’ve said is any indication, the answer is they can’t switch gears.
That horrifies me. The thought of always needing the lights to be off and always feeling like you have to be covered up in a mountain of cloth even in bed. Whoa.
CL
September 19, 2011
No worries Terri. I thought it was a strange rebuke coming from you. Sometimes it’s a little hard to tell on here!
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
I don’t tend to want to have sex unless I’m feeling sexy, and I just don’t feel sexy in my Church Lady clothes. It’s some weird psychological-thing. But who’s thinking of giving some oral when they’re dressed up like Mother Teresa?
Learn from the radical Moslems. Word has it that Victoria’s Secret does big business in the Moslem world. Ever wondered what goes UNDER the burka?
So wear the long modest churchy dress, if you must…. but wear something very risque underneath it. (Or perhaps go commando?) Only you will know — which is perfect, secret thrills are the hottest, LOL. Until of course Husband finds out at the right moment: “Whoa! I can’t believe you wore THAT under your church dress!”
Forever after, he’ll be looking at your long dresses very differently.
Girl Game. It’s not that complicated, but so few do it.
CL
September 19, 2011
secret thrills are the hottest, LOL
I can attest to this.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Svar you have a idealized view of Europe.
Some aspects of feminism may be different over here(and vary from country to country) but it’s still part of the official doctrine.”
Wait a minute, men in Europe do not have the same disregard for feminism as men in America? In America only beta-schlubs actually believe in feminism, not pretend to: http://solomonreborn.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/proverb-3-the-bright-side-of-feminism/
Feminism is a part of the official doctrine as well, SLF. Our most conservative party, the Neo-Con Republicans have bought into it as well. However, my point was that at the individual level, European men think it’s a load of shit the same way American men(atleast the Americans who live in the Heartland, not the Amerikans) do.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
@Terri
I was the whole day obtuse and pissed off in general.
And then you came along
In the case of the others who have misunderstood you, well you aren’t part of the notorious derail-crowd so perhaps everyone expects your comments to be more serious in general.
So join the derail-crowd.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Svar, he did like her, but came to his senses. It might have just been the beer glasses at the time though, to be fair.”
Beer glasses? Wait… she wasn’t even hot?
terri
September 19, 2011
Yes, it is possible to wear things that are sexy without advertising it. That’s a good idea.
I’ve seen some really far out ideas about modesty online. So far out that I don’t know where Victoria’s Secret would fit in the narrative.
But if Muslim women work this kind of thing into their lives, surely other women can with a little effort. Interestingly enough, with a couple of exceptions, I don’t think Alte’s husband’s preferences are that far out of step with her desire to be modest. She can tweak it a bit like we said and still have the best of both worlds.
And add alluring foundation garments instead of plain Jane old lady stuff.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
@S-L-F: No, I wasn’t saying you. Terri was just joking.
the cottage child
September 19, 2011
And add alluring foundation garments instead of plain Jane old lady stuff.
YES! – there’s no good reason for granny panties. There are too many cute things to choose from to not take advantage of this.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“I should add that this is amongst the more middle class types. In the lower and working classes, men generally seem to be less likely to put their balls in their wives purses.”
It depends. In the lower classes, the father is so alpha that he’s usually not around. Unfortunately, it seems that the working class is heading that way. In the middle class, yeah, most men have their balls in a vise, but I have noticed that doctors do not tend to be like this. I know this one Catholic doctor. His wife stays in line. I’d say that he is a great role model.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
@ Svar: Hey, you’re no longer linking to Chronicles! Welcome to having your own gravatar, for elsewhere.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 19, 2011
“Hey, you’re no longer linking to Chronicles!”
Probably he got to be too controversial for them.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
Ha! No doubt, heh heh.
Svar
September 19, 2011
@ Will S. and SLF
Hahaha. I’ve had this gravatar for a while and I’m not linking to Chronicles not because I disagree with that site(definitely not, it’s the greatest), but out of laziness. I just don’t feel like erasing the link to my gravatar and typing in the Chronicles address. Socially and morally, the men over at Chronicles and I are quite similar, remember how I described them as Classical Conservatives who want to preserve the Old Classical Liberal order?
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
Come to think of it….There’s probably a REASON why Victoria’s Secret is called… Victoria’s. As in, the Victorian era, which was possibly more sexually moral than our day (or not!), but was certainly far more modest. As a result of Victorian modesty, on the rare occasion when the all-covering Victorian dress was taken off, or simply hiked up, the lace and garter belts and all the other old-school undergarments were visible to the man on his way to the goal.
Hence, these Victorian undergarments eventually came to be sexual symbols, as icons of modesty suddenly shed…
This had such a powerful effect on the sexual mindset of Western men, that even today, long after the demise of the Victorian era, the old-school undergarments of the Victorian women still carry powerful erotic associations. Now THAT is Girl Game — they had such an effect on men, that men are fetishizing their underwear generations after their deaths!
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
PS Victorian fertility was a lot higher too….
van Rooinek
September 19, 2011
PPS. Josh Harris and the No-Dating crowd fetishize Victorian courtship… but, will they take it THIS far? One can only hope, for my sons’ sake.
CL
September 19, 2011
Beer glasses? Wait… she wasn’t even hot?
She was very nice looking and seemed quite sweet – good with kids – but a basket case, and not without good reason, but still. Kind of a shame really. Close but no cigar.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
@ Svar: Yeah, which is why I was surprised by your no longer linking them, here; I see your name over at Chris’s still has them linked, or maybe that’s just on older comments; I don’t know how it works.
Alte
September 19, 2011
If there’s one thing my husband likes to spend money on, it’s underwear and sleepwear. He’ll drop $200 on some lingerie without blinking an eye. Yesterday he was bring up my old (now discarded, on his insistence) “sleepy moon pajamas”. They are, in his view, the essence of the problem. It all comes back to my sleepy moon PJ habits.
But yeah, if I’m wearing sexy clothes and he approaches me, then I’m like, “Yeah, baby.” If I’m wearing Church Lady clothes then I’m like, “Not now, I’m reading about transubstantiation.” I mean, I can’t mentally switch back-and-forth that quickly. He likes long skirts, so that’s something we can agree on, and I’ve bought some more of those. But the tight shirts are a big hurdle for me.
I try to do the “Church Lady to lingerie” thing, but it doesn’t work for me. If I’m Church Lady in the morning, then I put on lingerie and just feel silly. I need to warm up for a while first. LOL
At any rate, I’m leaving now, so we’ll see how he likes what I buy.
Svar
September 19, 2011
Hey, Will and SLF, do you guys like lulz?(trick question, of course you do): http://haleyshalo.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/whose-last-name/#comment-6051
It’s funny because the feminist movement would not had a chance if men didn’t allow it. If America were to have taken a Franco-style approach to communism and Cultural Marxism(as in fighting the enemy at home instead of fucking Saigon) none of these -isms would have a snowball’s chance in hell. Feminism is no special snowflake itself: it, like every other snowflake, melts. Liberalism fails, bitchez.
Svar
September 19, 2011
Regardless, I just can’t imagine the kind of man who would marry a true-believing feminist like Fraulein Cameron. Cuckold-fetishists? Masochists? Castrati?
Will S.
September 19, 2011
@ Svar: The hamster is strong in that one. But then, the hamster is strong in many over there, as well a few here. What kind of man would go for her? Depends what she’s like IRL; whether she can act all sweet and nice, whether she’s pretty and slim enough, etc.
Alas, liberalism has temporarily succeeded. It will not hold, it cannot ultimately overcome its own internal contradictions, but the problem is, it may weaken us enough as a civilization to allow others not so foolish to overpower us… Therein lies the rub.
CL
September 19, 2011
I think, Alte, you are setting up a false dichotomy between sex and religion. That might be a topic for another post though. It’s something I’ve given a lot of thought to over the years – how to bring spirituality and sexuality together, rather than having this constant internal war going on between the two – and I feel like I’m kind of getting there lately, but not quite ready to post on it. There’s no need to be asexual just because you’re a “Church Lady”, and there’s no reason you can’t be sexual while still being reverent.
Thoughts to be continues at some point in the future…. (How’s that for a tease?)
Svar
September 19, 2011
“She was very nice looking and seemed quite sweet – good with kids – but a basket case, and not without good reason, but still. Kind of a shame really. Close but no cigar.”
Ah, yes Thag, I know the type that you are talking about. She’s the kind of girl that men instinctively want to rescue and protect, let me think… eternal ingenue?: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/how-to-handle-femmes-fatales-part-2a/
“the Eternal Ingenue comes closest to embodying the essence of the perfect woman. And, unfortunately, she is also the most diffcult to tame.”
Close but no cigar, indeed.
CL
September 19, 2011
Yes Svar, that sounds like her. Really, he dodged a bullet (again).
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Alas, liberalism has temporarily succeeded. ”
Temporal success is nothing. Tradition is eternal. Tradition is the time-tested model of what works vs. what doesn’t.
“It will not hold, it cannot ultimately overcome its own internal contradictions,”
Yes, Liberalism is suicide.
“but the problem is, it may weaken us enough as a civilization to allow others not so foolish to overpower us… Therein lies the rub.”
Say hello to Eurabia. This has happened to countries like Ancient Iran and of course, Imperial Rome.
Liberalism is nothing new, it’s been around since the very beginning of time(just bite this apple). Only a deluded liberal could think that it is. Reminds me of Julius Evola talking about the Marxist mindset, the Fascist Mindset, and the Traditionalist mindset: He said that the Marxist view of history is a linear one going towards a single point in time, Utopia. This is completely deluded considering the fact that time has no beginning or end, but don’t tell that to a liberal-shit. The Fascist view of history is also linear, but it is endless, going towards a constant process of Natural Evolution, trying to achieve the elusive Ubermensch. This is far more sane, but still wrong, because first off, evolution, according to Darwin(whom the Fascists consult), does not go towards a single point(but Intelligent Design does) and secondly, even though the Fascist is right in that time is endless, time can not be endless and linear at the same time. The Traditional view of history is cyclical: Gold age, Silver age, Bronze, Dark age. Sword age, Axe age, Wind age, Wolf age. This view acknowledges the fact that time is endless AND not linear. This is the correct view of history.
I win.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
But history is situated within time, so even if history be cyclical, in its patterns, that doesn’t mean time isn’t linear, necessarily. No?
If time is a continuum, from the Beginning to forevermore, it surely is linear, no? Like a vector, in mathematics…
We may and should certainly recognize God as per His holy name, the great “I AM” (YHWH), who rests both within and without the time continuum, since time itself if one of His creatures, i.e. it is part of His creation, but He chose to enter into it, to redeem His people. But that has no bearing, directly, on the linearity or not, of time, surely.
Okay, this is getting too deep, lol.
Svar
September 19, 2011
Hmmm, so I guess the Fascists won, huh?
But yes, that makes sense. Just because history is cyclical, that doesn’t mean time is. I guess I conflated the two together. I need to reread that quote.
It is hard to grasp the concept of infinity outside of a circle, but the vertex analogy helped me realize how time can have a beginning and still be endless.
chels
September 19, 2011
Wow there’s a whole thread on the name changing thing and the comments are even better–I can’t imagine what the big deal is, especially for women who pretend to be Christians :s
Will S.
September 19, 2011
Well, I have no idea what Julius Evola said, and the little bit I read of him years ago turned me off; I didn’t try to understand what he was getting at, because it seemed to ramble without reaching much point, was my impression.
But yes, time and history are two different things. Insofar as history is an interpretation of the past, and human events through time, it is of course thoroughly human, and our creation. But time, is God’s creation. Big difference, right there. History is contained within time.
Time has a beginning, because Genesis 1:1 tells us so. It does not have an end, because eternal life is what we look forward to.
Svar
September 19, 2011
Well, Will, Julius Evola is kind of a douche(guidos, I tell you
), to tell the truth. He was born into Sicilian aristocracy and a Catholic, but after reading Nietzsche, he decided to be a Neo-Pagan(pretend pagan). However, he, just like Yukio Mishima, make great arguments against liberalism, democracy, capitalism, socialism and ekwalitee, albeit in a rather douchey manner.
However, even though he was a Neo-Pagan and an adviser to Benito Mussolini, he was still a Traditionalist and a reactionary conservative, believe it or not. He does ramble and he doesn’t seem to believe that all humans are equal in intrinsic value(which they are), so he does have fascist leanings.
Svar
September 19, 2011
However, like most things, there are some nuggets of gold in his writings like this:
“1. The transcendent is real.
2. Man’s knowledge of his relationship to transcendence has been handed down from the beginning of human culture. This is Tradition with a capital T.
3. Human beings are tri-partite: body, soul, and spirit and it is wrong to isolate the physical or intellectual part.
4. State and society are hierarchical and the clearer the hierarchy, the healthier the society.
5. The worst traits of the modern world are its denial of transcendence, its reductionist vision of man, and its egalitarianism.”
He’s also the guy who said that “Man is Form and Woman is Void”, haha. I love using that line to irk the ladies. It’s like that “empty vessels” and “organic robots” comments that Samson said to get Kathy and Jen riled up over at Haley’s. I personally think that it is partially true, but not fully.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
Thanks for the vindication, heh heh.
Seriously, I don’t get why you like them; I can’t stand neo-pagans, like Stephen McNallen over at AltRight; if you don’t actually believe anything, why pretend to identify with something? McNallen pretends he’s an Asatru practioner – which isn’t, ironically, the faith of his Celtic, Druid ancestors, but that of the Germanics. But of course, he doesn’t actually believe in or truly worship Odin, Thor, Freya, Loki, and the rest of the Nordic Pantheon, so it’s all just play-acting BS. Why bother?
Those types, who claim to be all about identity and ethnic / racial heritage but don’t respect the Christian faith of their forefathers, are lying to themselves, because if they really loved their people they’d be positive about the faith their ancestors held. But they don’t, because they don’t, not really; they love some abstract idol they have created, rather, instead. Like Nietzsche, they think the faith makes people weak. Of course, in one sense, it does – but in our weakness His strength is manifest, and we can do all things through Him. But in another sense, they’ve got it ass-backwards, because our current social malaise in the West is due to the lack of true faith, having turned away from the faith that, when we truly believed and practiced it in yesteryear, created and sustained a great civilization.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
That was just silly; women are not robots, they certainly aren’t empty vessels – if they didn’t come up with their own ideas, after all, we wouldn’t have had the bad idea of feminism. But they also have good ideas, like our sisters here who strive to keep the faith.
Svar
September 19, 2011
However, Will, it is hilarious that the feminist over at Haley’s is screeching the most over Samson’s statement that women absorb either the values of their husband or the state. She is absolute proof of the latter. Maybe Evola did have a point?
Regardless, I find it hilarious how people think that they they are precious little snowflakes with their own little ideas and perspectives on everything. Nein, you are the all-dancing, all-singing crap of the world.
Atleast we traditionalists don’t pretend.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Seriously, I don’t get why you like them; I can’t stand neo-pagans”
I don’t really like them, but I do respect them more than I do secular liberals. Yes, neo-pagans are full of shit and like Bonald has noted in this article, very anti-Christian: http://bonald.wordpress.com/2011/08/02/the-european-new-right-a-better-way-to-attack-christianity/
I do like that they respect manhood. I do like that they are anti-liberal. However, like you said, they are all a bunch of material-reductionist nihilists pretending to be fur-clad men sakrificing horses to Oden. They don’t give a fuck about the Aesir or the Vanir or the Jotun.
They all “worship” Germanic gods. The Slavs, the Guidos, and yes, even the Mischlinge. I guess they don’t see the irony in that, but whatever.
I haven’t read Alternative Right in a long time so I don’t recognize the name Stephen MacNallen. I do remember Steve Sailer writing over at AltRight once and I do remember the names Richard Spencer and Scott Locklin.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
Oh, he did certainly have a bit of a point, yes.
You may have heard of O’Sullivan’s Law, back in the day: basically, any organization that isn’t decidedly conservative / rightist will become liberal / leftist, over time.
And there is a lesser-known libertarian equivalent, Carlson’s Law: basically, any organization that isn’t decidedly libertarian will become statist, over time.
Well, any woman who isn’t decidedly traditionalist Christian will become feminist, over time. Let’s call it Will S.’ Law, heh heh.
And to the extent which even putatively traditionalist Christian women spout feminist talking points, it demonstrates where their heart really lies: with the world, and its feminist, anti-Christian, anti-male, anti-family principles. We can see who they are quite easily.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Thanks for the vindication, heh heh.”
What vindication?
“That was just silly; women are not robots, they certainly aren’t empty vessels”
Haha, Samson was just baiting.
“if they didn’t come up with their own ideas, after all, we wouldn’t have had the bad idea of feminism. But they also have good ideas, like our sisters here who strive to keep the faith.”
True. Women do tend to have ideas. Mainly ideas like “eat apple” or “open box” but every now and then they come up with good ideas, hahaha.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
That Evola is “kind of a douche”; vindicates my prejudice against him.
Svar
September 19, 2011
I haven’t heard of O’ Sullivan’s Law or Carlson’s Law, but I’m wondering, what is conservative about the ACLU? On top of that, it’s ironic that the National Review posted that, considering that the National Review is no longer conservative(it’s Neo-Con which isn’t real Conservatism).
Will S.
September 19, 2011
Nothing is conservative about the ACLU; that’s the point.
That’s an old article, from 1989, over two decades ago (older than you), from when NR was still fairly decent.
Re: “I do like that they respect manhood. I do like that they are anti-liberal.”
Yes, but…
“However, like you said, they are all a bunch of material-reductionist nihilists pretending to be fur-clad men sakrificing horses to Oden.”
Exactly. It’s all a joke to them, really.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
@ CL: I know it’s late in the discussion, and I haven’t commented directly on the post thus far, but nevertheless: good post. It makes as much sense to dress for the seasons of life, as much as for the seasons of the year.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Exactly. It’s all a joke to them, really.”
I know. It’s just like with Roissy with his “Enjoy the Decline” and “Golden Era of Genitalia” lines. They see Rome burning around them and they’re content with fiddling their thumbs and diddling themselves.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
LOL, exactly.
Double E
September 19, 2011
I’m lol reading all this. Yes men like curves although men have a different definition of this than do American women. I tell my wife that she needs to eat more.
Yes err on the side of immodesty. My wife always dresses so cute. She’s like a china doll. She’s the only woman I know who can make a leather mini skirt look cute.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
EE, I understand that you live in Japan; is your wife Japanese? Or is she American, like I assume you are?
Svar
September 19, 2011
Re: Black chicks
I was watching TV and I saw an advertisement which showed this girl… A young black girl with BLUE eyes. Hawt.
Blue eyes truly are the greatest.
Svar
September 19, 2011
“Yes err on the side of immodesty.”
EE has a point. Once you’re married you don’t have anything to prove. The only way you can be considered a slut is if you’re an adulterous whore, not if you wear low-cut and tight clothes.
Will S.
September 19, 2011
@ Svar: Blue eyes? Hmmm. Doesn’t sound very natural, from what I know (which I admit is mostly about myself and my family) about dark skinned races and recessive genes; generally, darker eyes go with darker skin. Are you sure they weren’t contacts?
Personally, green eyes do it for me. Give me a raven-haired, Spanish-Armada-descended Irish girl with pale skin, and green eyes… Rrrrrrrrrrr!
Will S.
September 19, 2011
@ Svar: I think, though, that a balance still needs be struck, between not showing too much (which isn’t helpful or edifying to other brethren, if their thoughts are encouraged down a wrong path, shall we say) and yet still looking good, so that hubby can feel good looking at her and thinking, “Oh yeah; that’s my girl! All mine!”
Svar
September 20, 2011
Will, it is possible that they were contacts, but she had fairly light skin…. she was as dark as say Penelope Cruz. She was probably 1/4 black and 3/4 white. As for mixes between East Indians and whites…. it depends. From what I’ve seen, if the white has all-Nordic features, the kids do tend to have blue/light eyes. I think that blue eyes are recessive for all Caucasians, including non-European ones like East Indians.
Ahh, yes, you and an Irish girls…. You do tend to have a thing for ‘em. That’s probably why you spend time over at Sibby’s
I personally like Southern girls, who happen to live a little east of Texas. The Southern accent on a girl is hot as hell. I also really like Latin American girls; the Spanish/Portuguese accent on a girl is hot as well.
As for a balance, Thag has it right. I agree that you shouldn’t go too far in either direction, but like EE said it’s okay to err on the side of immodesty. Like short-skirts. Those are great, haha.
Will S.
September 20, 2011
I’m half-East-Indian, and in my experience, anyone half-East-Indian tends to have dark eyes, but that might not be universal…
Hey, you noticed me at her place, didja? LOL.
“Near Banbridge Town,
In the County Down
One morning last July,
Down a bóithrín green
Came a sweet colleen,
And she smiled as she passed me by.
She looked so neat
From her two bare feet
To the sheen of her nut-brown hair,
Such a coaxing elf,
Sure, I shook myself
To make sure I was standing there.
Chorus:
From Bantry Bay
Up to Derry Quay,
And from Galway to Dublin Town,
No maid I’ve seen
Like the brown colleen
That I met in the County Down.”
Aren’t you from Texas? Do you even notice a Southern accent, or does it sound just normal to you, lol.
Hey, I like short skirts, or short dresses. Even a woman who is fairly plain, not drop-dead gorgeous by any stretch, can look great in a short dress:
The singer there is a good example of that. She’s nothing special in the looks department, but she looks good in that dress, and looks so cute, so adorable, as she dances while she sings. And she snagged a Texan boy, who’s her husband, in the band there with her; he chose a cute, but not supermodel-beautiful, French-Canadian woman, over a Southern belle… (Actually, she’s Haitian-Canadian (paging DA, one of yours, sorta, lol), but born and raised in Montreal.)
Will S.
September 20, 2011
Come to think of it, her eyes are green, aren’t they? I’m not sure if she’s mulatto or quadroon or octoroon, or just French-planter-descendent; she certainly isn’t pure black, but she could be part-black. Whatever. Like most Montreal women, she knows how to dress, and how to move. They all seem to have that certain je-ne-sais-quoi…
Chris
September 20, 2011
Will, I have enough problems thinking about how to answer questions on predestination, Red Tories, dealing with spats among the young people and deconstructing html to think about getting code links out of Svars comments.
Returning to the topic of female vanity and appropriate fashion: Terri and Alte, any comments? (Christian Muso Brooke Fraser)
http://www.christianworldwideweb.com/FW4C/BrookeFraser77.jpg
terri
September 20, 2011
I’m not familiar with Brook Fraser but the picture you offered showcases an interesting dichotomy. Everything about her attire and makeup seem modest enough to me while the pose she strikes seems overtly “come-hither” for a Christian artist.
It serves to remind that modesty consists of more than what we wear on the outside. It’s a matter of the heart.
Oh, and she’s very pretty too.
CL
September 20, 2011
I’ve done a short follow-up post if anyone wants to weigh in there:
http://curmudgeonloner.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/pleasing-your-man/
This has been quite the epic thread! And still going, wow.
It serves to remind that modesty consists of more than what we wear on the outside. It’s a matter of the heart.
Definitely a good point.
CL
September 20, 2011
Looking at the pic, it doesn’t look all that “come hither” to me. Pretty tame, but I am a reformed heathen.
Svar
September 20, 2011
“I’m half-East-Indian, and in my experience, anyone half-East-Indian tends to have dark eyes, but that might not be universal…”
Strange…. most of the ones I know have light eyes….
“Aren’t you from Texas? Do you even notice a Southern accent, or does it sound just normal to you, lol.”
Yeah, I from Texas and trust me, the Texas accent is nothing. I went over to Louisiana to meet some family friends and I was blown away by the accent on their daughter(she was hot)…. I had never heard an accent like that. It was really different from the twangy accents I usually hear in Texas. And no they weren’t Cajuns, just Southerners.
That Haitian Canadian girl has a really annoying singing voice, but yeah, she is cute. I had to watch the video without sound to see what you were getting at.
7man
September 20, 2011
I’d rephrase it – True modesty is different than merely what clothes are worn. It’s more so a matter of the heart and of intent.
CL
September 20, 2011
Also, the ‘rules’ for modesty are different for marriage than for a priest. Not to mention the aspects of time and place where what can end up happening is that modesty, taken to an extreme, could wind up being as much a form of attention-whoring as the other end of the spectrum.
terri
September 20, 2011
Not to mention the aspects of time and place where what can end up happening is that modesty, taken to an extreme, could wind up being as much a form of attention-whoring as the other end of the spectrum.
This. I agree completely. And now that copy work (5 yr. old) and coloring (3 yr. old) are done, I have to be more productive, LOL.
Catch y’all later.
Svar
September 20, 2011
“to think about getting code links out of Svars comments.”
Huh?
laceagate
September 20, 2011
I’d rephrase it – True modesty is different than merely what clothes are worn. It’s more so a matter of the heart and of intent.
I agree with that and then there’s always the come-back of how people do not know your intent, and if a woman dresses slightly revealing and is aware of the fact that men are visually inclined, she is either being purposefully ignorant or doesn’t care. In other words, you are purposefully being a temptress.
I dont agree with that argument but I’ve heard quite a few variations.
CL
September 20, 2011
Lacey, you say you agree then argue for why that statement is not true. You underestimate men’s capacity to tell the difference between a woman trolling for sexual attention and one who is just dressed nice but not necessarily trying to inflame lust. You’re working off the assumption that the average man is is a continual state of lusting after women, and this really isn’t the case. A man sees an attractive woman and appreciates her as a visual treat, then goes about his day. He normally doesn’t follow her down the street with his tongue hanging out. Give men a bit more credit. You also assume that every woman wearing a short skirt is walking around looking like she’s gagging for it. Get real!
CL
September 20, 2011
Oh, I see you say you don’t agree with that. Still, it’s a pretty ridiculous argument.
laceagate
September 20, 2011
Yes, it is ridiculous that’s why I mentioned it. Many MEN have talked about that issue in terms of that a woman is purposefully trying to “make them sin,” and how “difficult they’re making things” for them.
I can see how this is difficult for teenagers and even men under the age of 21. But beyond that, you’d think that there would not be so much paranoia. I mean, some of the stuff I have heard guys complain about are ridiculous– I have a friend who I used to work with. Her butt is, for lack of a better word, noticeable. Very. She did dress modestly and bought clothes in her size. Yet one of the men decided it would be a good idea to identify her by butt-shape– “the girl with the big butt,” and when he was called out on it, complained about how he wouldn’t have to say that if her butt wasn’t so big and if only she covered up some more (rolls eyes). Yeah dude, that’s why she’s got a NAME.
terri
September 20, 2011
The argument Lacey mentioned is actually quite prevalent in more conservative churches. This idea that men are walking vessels of uncontrolled lust and that women are therefore responsible to make life easier for them by not being attractive. It’s one of the reasons many men online complain that misandry is as alive and well in the church as it is in liberal, feminist dominated culture.
Yes, we are to give a bit of attention to not being a stumbling block to our Christian brothers. I firmly believe that, but I also think that some amongst the modesty brigade have taken the idea a bit too far. When you put all of the burden to avoid sin on any one person or group of people, you sorely misunderstand the nature of sin.
Svar
September 20, 2011
“the girl with the big butt,”
Hey, you know her too?
CL
September 20, 2011
Yet one of the men decided it would be a good idea to identify her by butt-shape– “the girl with the big butt,” and when he was called out on it, complained about how he wouldn’t have to say that if her butt wasn’t so big and if only she covered up some more (rolls eyes). Yeah dude, that’s why she’s got a NAME.
LOL In high school there was this girl known as “Becky with the big butt.” Some things never change.
CL
September 20, 2011
Terri, indeed.
Chels
September 20, 2011
Didn’t y’all know that cleavage causes earthquakes?
Svar
September 20, 2011
“Didn’t y’all know that cleavage causes earthquakes?”
Really? I thought cleavage caused boners.
Svar
September 20, 2011
Personally, short-skirts just look nice, but they don’t incite lust. Down here, girls bare their legs all the time, so it’s not a big deal. Skin-tight clothes and epic cleavage on the other hand is pushing it.
joanna
September 20, 2011
After having read all the above, I guess the only thing I have to say is that I generally check with my husband before I leave the house: “Honey, how do I look?” If he says anything about what I’m wearing, I change my clothes. He is my sounding board for how modestly I’m dressed and since he’s a man and I’m his woman, I think he is the best person to determine if I’m modest enough. That being said, if he ever asked me to wear anything that was against what I thought was modest (no boobs, skirts knee-length is my simple standard), then I’d object. Why my husband would want me to go outside baring cleavage and thighs is beyond me.
joanna
September 20, 2011
Oh and “HOORAH” for the lingerie discussion.
Will S.
September 20, 2011
Agreed, Terri.
CL
September 20, 2011
Svar, I always think about places like Brazil, where people seem to be less squeamish about this kind of dress that shows a fair bit of skin. There’s still a lot of leftover Puritanism in the U.S.
terri
September 20, 2011
Why my husband would want me to go outside baring cleavage and thighs is beyond me.
I agree with the sentiment. CL’s post resonated with me because while my husband would never want or approve of me going out with thighs or cleavage showing, he has a definite preference for shirts that are more fitted (sometimes I’d say clingy even though I’m well covered).
Because of my chest, I used to be self-conscious and worried about modesty even though objectively, I know it isn’t really immodest except in the minds of those who think any hint of a woman’s shape incites a man to uncontrollable fits of lust.
Joanna, you’re a little tiny thing who can wear stuff that I could never get away with, LOL.
joanna
September 20, 2011
I have to admit that pregnancy and nursing boobs make me nervous, but my husband loves them. I like it when they go back to normal, so I’m glad that I don’t have to fight that fight. My husband likes nice things, not revealing thing. IF he shops for me, it’s at places like Ann Taylor Loft. He’s the one that encourages the lingerie though, which I find to be fun.
It’s hard to find nice skirts for short people. Since everyone makes clothing in averages, and I’m shorter than average, either I have to wear mini-skirts or the skirts drag on the ground. I tend to sew my own skirts, and then give them away, because I sew them too big for me. I like shirts with longer sleeves because I have a tattoo of a turtle on my left upper arm and I rather dislike it (let this be a lesson for you kids). My husband actually appreciates it when I try to cover it up. I think we may be a little more “covered up” or modest than many of you here.
I have a shirt similar to this, only it’s burnt orange and every time I wear it he compliments me.
http://www.jcpenney.com/jcp/X6.aspx?GrpTyp=SIZ&ItemID=1b82c57&DeptID=70656&CatID=80480&SO=0&SelDim=4294957900~&CatSel=4294936197|shirts+%2b+blouses&NOffset=2&Ne=4294957900+23+29+3+596+8+949+1031+18+904+833&pagesize=1&x5view=1&shopperType=G&N=4294936197&Nao=198&PSO=0&bcCat=3&CmCatId=70656|80480&sa=1
Svar
September 20, 2011
“I have a tattoo of a turtle on my left upper arm”
So, wait… are you saying that I shouldn’t get that crimson red Swastika tat that I was planning on getting?
But seriously, a turtle?
terri
September 20, 2011
I have a tattoo of a turtle on my left upper arm and I rather dislike it
ROFL! You remember when I asked you about the turtle? Later Bright Eyes said, “I was wondering about that because you didn’t make her sound like the tattoo type.”
I told her none of us are the types we were at age 18 or 19.
CL
September 20, 2011
I sure am glad I never got a tattoo! lol
Svar
September 20, 2011
“I sure am glad I never got a tattoo! lol”
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/06/tattoos.html
I have a few friends that are retarded and they decided to get tattoos….. at some Russian immigrant guy’s house. The guy was an ex-con. I’m surprised that they didn’t get infected. The all got the same tats and it was some sort of anime monkey.
I thought it was unbelievably stupid.
joanna
September 20, 2011
Yeah, I was easily influenced to do dumb things when I was 17 – 19. I got home tattoos on my left hand (a dot), on my EARS!!! (lines), the turtle and a Japanese character that (was supposed to) says “joy” on the back of my neck. As I neither spoke nor read Japanese at the time, how could I know what it actually says is music or pleasure AND that neither the Japanese or the Chinese recognize that specific character anymore, but rather a short form of the character on my neck. Fortunately for me, the Koreans still use the character. Let’s just go with the “joy” definition though, okay? I was really into “bad boys”, a real alterna-chick (yes, I made up that word) and now I’m suffering the consequences.
The funny thing is that I once refused to date a guy that had several tattoos because I didn’t want to have to explain them to my kids…even though I didn’t want any kids. But they were a skeleton drummer and dragons and skulls with blood and swords. How are you supposed to explain that to children. At least the turtle is rather cute. A couple of my kids couldn’t understand why they didn’t have a turtle on their arm, too.
CL
September 20, 2011
Not like I never considered it, but I just could never bring myself to spend money on something that frivolous. Yes, even when I was 18.
Svar, funny article.
van Rooinek
September 20, 2011
“the girl with the big butt,”
Hey, you know her too?
You mean, Mrs. Mix-a-Lot?
Svar
September 20, 2011
“Not like I never considered it, but I just could never bring myself to spend money on something that frivolous. Yes, even when I was 18. ”
Thag, I’ve considered it. I’ve always wanted to get a severed wolf’s head on my shoulder, but like Joanna said, things like that go too far, I might as well get a Tottenkopf or SS lightening bolts inked into my neck.
The Swastika joke reminded me of two old articles over at STD-both I think by Alkiabiades. The first one talked about this hot, liberal Hispanic girl who worked in prisoner rehabilitation. She working to rehabilitate this Neo-Nazi who had a huge Swastika emblazoned on his back. But then she fell in love(read: in tingles) with him, hahah. The Neo-Nazi started to bang her and can’t remember what happened next. All I remember is that it was funny. Something like how she would always defend him to her friends and stuff like that.
The second one would be how one of his friend’s daughters was talking about how “hawt” Edward Long was in American History X on facebook. One of her friends asked her why, and all she could say was “I don’t know, he just is”. I always find it amusing when girls don’t realize what makes them feel so funny and ticklish down there.
You this kind of reminds me of something that happened to me. I was asking this girl if she was a Catholic(she was) because it seemed for some reason that her family was Catholic(five kids, from a distinctively Catholic region) and she asked me what I was and I looked her straight in the eye and said: “pagan”. Her eyes immediately lit up. Insta-tingles, heh.
Svar
September 20, 2011
“I was really into “bad boys”, a real alterna-chick (yes, I made up that word) and now I’m suffering the consequences.”
So when did you decide to be a serious Christian? Were your parents Christian?
Svar
September 20, 2011
“You mean, Mrs. Mix-a-Lot?”
Hahaha.
CL
September 20, 2011
I thought I might get a huge rock “ME” (remember that from Sesame Street?) on my back, since that pretty much sums up every tattoo ever made.
Joy
September 20, 2011
Oh and “HOORAH” for the lingerie discussion.”
Yes! My mother was a proponent for beautiful things underneath that no one else can see just for yourself and your husband so I have always done this.
CL
September 20, 2011
Tattoos: Getting ugly shit you wouldn’t have hanging on your wall permanently drawn on your body for lots of money. I see some really nice looking young women and then it’s totally spoilt by a load of ugly doodles all over her arm or leg. Stupid and vulgar.
van Rooinek
September 20, 2011
Svar: “I was asking this girl if she was a Catholic(she was) ….and she asked me what I was and I looked her straight in the eye and said: “pagan”. Her eyes immediately lit up.”
Because to her, you were a bad boy!
For a good laugh, I suggest you go to this link, and scroll about halfway down to my post from March.
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/dating-a-vegetarian-girl-is-a-sacrifice/
CL
September 20, 2011
Van Rooinek, I saw that post! That was hilarious! Ha ha ha ha!!
joanna
September 20, 2011
Svar – Raised Christian. I was seriously in rebellion at that time. Always believed in God, just didn’t want to do the right thing.
“Getting ugly shit you wouldn’t have hanging on your wall permanently drawn on your body for lots of money.”
Ouch. But I know what you mean. I’m just glad mine aren’t actually really hideous, just dumb. You should hear everyone ohh and ahh over this tattoo though, “Ooooh, I LOVE your tattoo!” My response is generally, “Yes, everyone is young and dumb once.”
Svar
September 20, 2011
“Because to her, you were a bad boy!”
Haha yeah, and you know how Catholic girls are: always craving bad boys! I just found it hilarious: the moment I uttered “pagan” it was like I tossed her a few Mardi Gras beads or offered her coke or even better, whipped out my schlong(just kidding, she was a nice girl, but that just makes it even more hilarious). Women are funny.
“For a good laugh, I suggest you go to this link, and scroll about halfway down to my post from March.”
Heh, I read that post when it came out but I never looked at the comments. Your anecdote is funny and reminds me of a few of mine. Liberal girls…. they feign shock at your “offensiiiiiiive” statements but they’re really wishing that your bad boy pole will explode inside of them the entire time. Christian girls aren’t any better; they’ve bought into some aspects of feminism and Churchly woman-worship and the more chauvinistic and depedestalizing you are, the more they tingle.
Svar
September 20, 2011
To think of it, Traditional Chauvinism works well with either conservative Christian girls or liberal girls. Ethnotradism FTW!
van Rooinek
September 20, 2011
“…For a good laugh, I suggest you go to this link, and scroll about halfway down to my post from March.”
“Heh, I read that post when it came out but I never looked at the comments.”
.
To clarify… the Original Post isn’t mine, only the comment by “van Rooinek” is mine.
Will S.
September 20, 2011
I know that laser removal of tattoos is expensive – hundreds of dollars – and the skin may not completely heal in all cases, may not return to its former state, but if one has tattoos and doesn’t want them anymore, doesn’t it make sense to save up the money, and get removal done ASAP? I would.
wifey
September 20, 2011
hmm, how much do you think tattoos cost? they’re not like, hundreds of dollars (though they can be, it depends). as long as your tattoos are relatively easy to hide, why regret them? at least they remind you of a moment in time when you were young and carefree (we’ll say carefree instead of dumb).
of course, i don’t have any anger about people’s tattoos, and the tattoos i see are usually not ugly.
CL
September 20, 2011
I’m not angry about them, I just think they’re silly and ugly. Even $50, I could think of better things to spend money on than defacing myself. If others want to do that, that’s their lookout.
Svar
September 20, 2011
If you’re not in the military, a band, or in jail(or on the way to), there is no reason to get a tat. That doesn’t make cool.
joanna
September 20, 2011
Will – At this point, I feel like it’s…penance. Why waste my husband’s money on tattoo removal? If he was really adamant about it, I’d get it done, but it’s good enough just to cover it up with shirts, or just live with it. I think he might like to get it done sometime, but there are also piano lessons, art lessons, curriculum, braces and other real-life things that need the funds. If I was single and had nothing else to do with the money, I would definitely get it done.
Alte
September 20, 2011
This thread is crazy long!
At any rate, I bought the clothes using the following conditions: It has to be tight, transparent, or tight-and-transparent.
He loves it. Unfortunately, I can now never eat anything ever again. LOL
Will S.
September 20, 2011
Fair enough, Joanna.
joanna
September 20, 2011
“Later Bright Eyes said, “I was wondering about that because you didn’t make her sound like the tattoo type.””
Yes, Terry, I think it quite a juxtaposition and now I wear a head scarf all the time. But, I’m glad I don’t sound like the tattoo type. They’re a bad idea all around.
Alte
September 20, 2011
And to the extent which even putatively traditionalist Christian women spout feminist talking points, it demonstrates where their heart really lies: with the world, and its feminist, anti-Christian, anti-male, anti-family principles. We can see who they are quite easily.
This is backward. Feminism was making the personal political, but women are women and their personal gripes, complaints, and bitching is the same, regardless of their political leanings. It was the concept of trying to solve their “man problems” by using the force of the state, that was wrong.
laceagate
September 20, 2011
Alte seriously, just exercise more.
I don’t get how chicks can say they can’t eat anything again and lose all this weight?? I eat whatever the hell I want, and my weight keeps dropping, even when I don’t exercise. Drink more water, too. That should help. Are you lifting heavy weights a couple times a week?
Alte
September 20, 2011
“the girl with the big butt,”
Hey, you know her too?
You mean, Mrs. Mix-a-Lot?
You called?
Alte
September 20, 2011
Yeah, I work out at the gym now. Doesn’t make me lose weight, though. I have thyroiditis, remember?
laceagate
September 20, 2011
Are you lifting heavy weights? Anaerobic exercise goes through a slightly different metabolic process versus aerobic (cardio).
Alte
September 20, 2011
And I agree that a lot of white guys like women with curves, at least according to my own experience. My “black woman’s behind” has generally been a positive, rather than a negative.
Alte
September 20, 2011
Yes, I lift, but I only started recently. Working out makes me really hungry actually, so I’ve been struggling even more lately.
Alte
September 20, 2011
It was funny because I was shopping all over the Annapolis and Baltimore yesterday and today, and I got a lot more male attention in the swankier places. Interesting. Totally matches my past experience. I have no idea why that is, or what it means, but it was further proof that I’m onto some pattern here. Hmm….
laceagate
September 20, 2011
The hunger is actually normal and something that will dissipate over time. For me, it took a couple weeks, but I can eat differently than you probably. I get about 4-6 times a day, and my meals are mainly small and have lots of protein and fiber. Then again I also have PCOS– which interferes with weight loss as well, but I have to eat differently in order to help it.
van Rooinek
September 20, 2011
Oh, they love to watch her strut…
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 20, 2011
“This thread is crazy long!”
Indeed.
And now seriously:Who has read every comment here,or at least tried?
joanna
September 20, 2011
I have seriously read every comment here. Hmmm…does that make me a time waster? Indeed it does. I see some laundry to fold. Gotta run.
7man
September 20, 2011
LOL, CL posts the thread that won’t stop. God must have really “blessed her heart.”
Alte
September 20, 2011
I’ve read it all. Or most of it. Half of it is me, after all. LOL
Oh, they love to watch her strut…
Indeed.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 20, 2011
“CL posts the thread that won’t stop”
Michael Ende would be proud of her.
Alte
September 20, 2011
When I walked in with all of those clothes he said, “I can’t believe you dropped another half-grand on more of your sack-dresses. What’ll it be this time? A potato sack? A coal sack? A flour sack? Oh, the excitement never ends!” I didn’t even say anything, I just changed into the first outfit and he shut up.
Svar
September 20, 2011
“I can’t believe you dropped another half-grand on more of your sack-dresses. What’ll it be this time? A potato sack? A coal sack? A flour sack? Oh, the excitement never ends!”
I personally thought the “she’s wearing her birth control” line was hilarious.
Alte
September 20, 2011
I bought more fishnet, girls. Italian ones with flowery designs woven in. And some lingerie. And some lacy shirts (like this) and transparent shirts I can wear over camisoles. And etc. I went to Bebe and Wet Seal and all those other stores I usually avoid like the plague. I bought this sweater (you can’t tell from the pic, but it’s see-through).
It was funny because I was the thinnest woman shopping at Wet Seal. I tend to think of myself as overweight, but when I go out I’m shocked by how fat everyone is. Wow.
van Rooinek
September 20, 2011
Can I send my wife shopping with you?
(While you’re together, she can teach you all about text messaging, too…:-) )
wifey
September 20, 2011
aww alte, congrats!
where do you live?? i never see anyone but skinny hipsters and skinny housewives at my mall. i know you live somewhere near dc (iirc) but it must be outside the city.
@svar
hah! really? you put “band” in there with military and jail??? please. there are plenty of reasons to get a tattoo and honestly, “being young and letting loose” is better than “being in a band.”
Alte
September 20, 2011
I live out in Western Maryland, but I was shopping in Annapolis, mostly. It seemed like everyone at the mall was fat, and I was there both during and after work hours. Shocking, especially in such a wealthy place. And most of them were white.
laceagate
September 20, 2011
LMAO when I go to Wet Seal, it’s always full of teeny-boppers who are size 2-4.
That lace shirt is awesome, btw. I have this:
http://www.polyvore.com/new_york_company_view_all/thing?id=12860387
I usually wear two layers of camisoles or a heavier tank top underneath.
Alte
September 20, 2011
TWO layers? You’re worse than me.
Alte
September 20, 2011
Well, I wear a 6, so I’m not that far out of Wet Seal range. But, yeah, really fat.
laceagate
September 20, 2011
LMAO I am SO not worse than you! I don’t want people seeing my bra!
I wore that blouse with one camisole underneath to work. When I got home and looked at myself in the mirror, I realized you could sort of see my bra. My eyes almost popped out. Next time I wore it, I had two layers on underneath because I would rather not advertise…
Svar
September 20, 2011
“there are plenty of reasons to get a tattoo and honestly, “being young and letting loose” is better than “being in a band.””
I meant the good reasons, not the retarded reasons like drunk, stupid, or whore. Like being a Marine, a biker, a gangster, a neo-fascist, or a racist. If you are not one of the above(or similar), you just look like a tool. It’s just lame SWPL crap, fake rebellion.
Now, this isn’t a big point of contention for me, but this just the way I see it. I have a couple of friends with acceptable tats(both Marines). I have a few friends with a stupid anime monkey tat that they got from a Russian immigrant who’s an ex-con. That is RETARDED. All my friends thought it was retarded as well and they aren’t even Christian men, mainly a bunch of hedonistic jocks.
David Alexander
September 20, 2011
At any rate, I bought the clothes using the following conditions: It has to be tight, transparent, or tight-and-transparent.
Alte, my mom* says to dress for him as it’s what kept my dad happy for years per her comments. Coincidentally, judging by your purchases, you did just that.
*Yeah, I dragged her into it. It’s an easy way of entertaining her and keeping her company.
David Alexander
September 20, 2011
Re: tattoos
Maybe it’s me, but it’s something that I could never see getting for myself, but it’s something that I wouldn’t discourage my significant other from getting. I’m not going to even say that there are tasteful tattoos, but there is a certain sexual allure to them. Although, I’ll note that most tattoos look better on white skin than on dark skin.
Alte
September 20, 2011
Your mom is right, DA. I was being stupid about it. Even with these clothes I’m more modest than most women. And… you know… I actually look good in this stuff. It’s not like I’m getting any younger, so why shouldn’t he be allowed to admire me in my waning youth?
The tight clothes are an interesting juxtaposition to the headscarf. This apparently short-circuits male brains.
Alte
September 20, 2011
My cousin has a pretty dragon tattoo on her shoulder.
David Alexander
September 20, 2011
My cousin has a pretty dragon tattoo on her shoulder.
My friend has a butterfly tattoo on her shoulder. It’s pretty and not overtly sexual like a stereotypical “tramp stamp” design, it still reeks of a certain proleness to have that tattoo in the first place.
The tight clothes are an interesting juxtaposition to the headscarf. This apparently short-circuits male brains.
I must admit, a headscarf with the knit sweater from Wet Seal, you could evoke a cute, youthful look that doesn’t reek of the immodesty that you fear. Your husband paid for a younger woman, so let him enjoy that younger woman.
Your mom is right, DA.
Well, she does have 25 years of experience.
Svar
September 20, 2011
“it still reeks of a certain proleness to have that tattoo in the first place.”
Yep. Lumpenproles…..
laceagate
September 20, 2011
I must admit, a headscarf with the knit sweater from Wet Seal, you could evoke a cute, youthful look that doesn’t reek of the immodesty that you fear. Your husband paid for a younger woman, so let him enjoy that younger woman.
For once, I do not disagree with DA.
wifey
September 21, 2011
yes! also, based on what you purchased (or, at least, the two links you gave), you can definitely make the headscarf work in a boho-chic/fashiony way. a wide silk headscarf would look really cute with the dolman top. and big earrings. i’m not sure how you feel about jewelry (some people prefer modest jewelry) but chunky jewelry and headscarves are all the rage these days.
wifey
September 21, 2011
you definitely missed my point. you are one of those people who could use some “letting loose” in your life.
lol. sure it isn’t.
Chris
September 21, 2011
Svar… issue is clearing all the links from comments. I simply don’t bother.
Alte, do I spy the look of shopping on your face? I guess it is getting out of summer on the East Coast… and back to the monochrome of the South. BTW, this photo has more colour than most wome will wear during our winters.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WF6Q77FBWJU/TZ746vYq18I/AAAAAAAAAMM/oa4AoRvQHsQ/s1600/Flora%2B350px.png
David Alexander
September 21, 2011
you can definitely make the headscarf work in a boho-chic/fashiony way
As somebody who has met Alte in person, I suspect it’s far easier for her to rock that look than the hot girl look. She’s far too cute and has too short hair for the hot girl look.
Joy
September 21, 2011
I like the lace top and the dolman sleeve sweater. Sounds like you had a great shopping trip.
Alte
September 21, 2011
I did have a great shopping trip. My mom was so relieved that I was going to buy non-Church Lady clothes that she let me shop all Monday evening and all day Tuesday, while she watched the kids. She even took pictures of me in the clothes afterward. LOL Fashion show, but sort of irritating as I don’t think my clothes were that bad. My feet hurt, but it was fun! I even managed to resist going to a bookstore.
I like chunky jewelry, but my daughter loves to rip them off of me, so I’ll have to wait another year or so. I think the headbands and scarves I have are quite pretty, so they’ll still work with the clothes. I think it does just make it cuter.
DA,
The “cute” is the “hot” for a lot of men. My hair is below my shoulders now, too.
CL
September 21, 2011
Still going, eh?
7man, look what you started! We make a good team.
Alte
September 21, 2011
Comment 550!
CL
September 21, 2011
Comment 550!
LOL That doesn’t count!
Svar
September 21, 2011
“you are one of those people who could use some “letting loose” in your life. ”
Oh I do, I just don’t spend money on shit that I’ll regret in 10 years. Usually when I “let loose” I just fuck my liver in half.
Svar
September 21, 2011
“you definitely missed my point.”
You missed my point. Now that SWPL hipsters have tattoos, they aren’t cool anymore. That’s how the youngfolk thing nowadays.
CL
September 21, 2011
LOL Svar. I’m with you on the tats. Yuppie moms have tattoos around here; so hip!
David Alexander
September 21, 2011
She even took pictures of me in the clothes afterward.
I demand photos.
The “cute” is the “hot” for a lot of men. My hair is below my shoulders now, too.
To me, that makes little sense, but I’m a weirdo and outlier. I need that blatant sexualized look.
CL
September 21, 2011
We know, David, we know.
Alte
September 21, 2011
You know, I was thinking about why the guys checking me out are from different economic classes, but only the wealthier guys seriously hit on me. I think it’s assortative mating. They can smell money (and intelligence). LOL That would explain it. There are a lot of prettier and younger women, but fewer in my previous socio-economic class, so my SMV is higher with them than among the general population.
I think that’s why my husband gets so jealous. When the guys staring and making comments are less wealthy than him, he doesn’t seem to care. He ignores it, or just laughs, or whatever. But when they’re wealthier, he acts all butt-hurt about it. I think that’s why he works so much.
CL
September 21, 2011
Ah, so you’ve found what makes him feel most qualified to be with you. You really need to accept his gifts of nice clothes; that probably validates him as a man, that he can provide that for you. Then when you put them in the basement and wear a prison matron dress, you are essentially (if not intentionally) insulting his manhood. This is quite the revelation for you! Well done!
Plus, he wants to show off what he provides, which is why you need to wear that stuff when you go out with him. Build him up more than some office tart and you’ll inoculate him against that temptation. That power is yours.
Alte
September 21, 2011
Yeah, I feel totally enlightened today. A lot of his weird reactions and behavior make more sense in light of that revelation. He’s always scrimping and saving, but when I do the same thing he gets irritated. He loves to spend money on me, and the more wasteful it is, the more he likes it. I’ve always thought that was strange. He was saying some stuff yesterday that made me think of that.
I usually don’t buy myself anything, or ask him for anything, but he seems happier when I do. I’m always trying to be frugal, and he’s like, “Oh, just blow the cash. I’ll get more.” But I do worry about money sometimes, or I accept money from my parents, and that makes him feel bad. He wants to provide for me the way I used to live, but he doesn’t really have the income for it.
CL
September 21, 2011
That rocks!
terri
September 21, 2011
But I do worry about money sometimes, or I accept money from my parents, and that makes him feel bad. He wants to provide for me the way I used to live, but he doesn’t really have the income for it.
Why do your parents feel the need to offer you money?
I only ask because even though my father is blessed to be in a position where he could give me money, the thought is offensive to him. He would feel as if he was treading into territory that isn’t his to tread, as if he was disrespecting my husband as the man he trusted to provide and care for me.
“If SAM can’t give it, then Terri doesn’t need it”, is what my dad would say. Thankfully we have never been in a position where we needed to ask him for anything, but if we were, me father would not allow me to ask him for it. In fact, he’d rather my husband came to him privately and leave me out of it entirely. He takes that “man as king of his castle” stuff very seriously, LOL.
Alte
September 21, 2011
I guess they don’t really think he can provide adequately for me. They think I’m sort of slumming, I guess. He’s insecure about it, so I’ve been trying to be extra-frugal so that his money doesn’t get used up, but that just makes him feel worse about it. And then some guy invites me out on his yacht or cracks a joke about my car or how I obviously didn’t marry him for his money, and he gets upset. Understandably. These guys are giving off serious, “What’s a nice girl like you doing with a guy like him?” vibes.
I think it’s sometimes hard on men to marry a wealthier woman. Like he’s invading enemy territory, or something. So, I’ve been trying to “live according to my means” and look the part, and that just makes him feel worse. Especially as he insisted that I give up my job, so now he’s feeling the pressure to make up the difference. My working has been grating on him, and I think that’s why he tells me to just blow the money on whatever.
terri
September 21, 2011
I’ve been trying to “live according to my means” and look the part, and that just makes him feel worse.
Major mistake, friend. You want to live frugally and still look good. Everyone we know assumes we make more money than we actually do. I almost want to laugh out loud when I hear some of the preposterous assumptions.
One thing my husband has always been very serious about is that his wife and children reflect the fact that he works hard to take good care of us. He doesn’t mind eating beans and rice a couple of days a week if need be. And a wife who knows her way around a kitchen can make the most frugal food come off like a feast fit for a king. But you already know that.
In other words, dress the part that HE wants you to dress, not the part that you think reflects your true financial state. You’re a highly intelligent woman so I know that you are capable of looking good without breaking the bank.
terri
September 21, 2011
Oh and Alte, there is a not so subtle message you send to both your man and your parents when you accept their monetary gits.
CL
September 21, 2011
What Terri said.
I live frugally (my rent is more than half my income – could live cheaper rent, but it would mean living in a shitty neighbourhood) but I mostly don’t look like I do. I do my best to make it appear we’re better off than we are. My kids have no idea how little we really live on – they seem to think I’m rich.
I don’t even really know how I do it, to be honest, but if you’re good at frugal I’m sure you can do it too.
I don’t have a husband around to keep happy, but I like when my kids think I’m made of money even if it’s kind of annoying sometimes, because it tells me I’m doing pretty well in shielding them from feeling like the poorest kids in the school, which they more or less are as we live in a fairly wealthy neighbourhood. Why should you appear “poor”? Nuts to that. Thrift and consignment stores ftw.
CL
September 21, 2011
Although at their new school the median income is a good bit lower than at the last snooty-ass place, we are still well below that median. Another reason school uniforms rock. This school has a higher academic standard than the other one too, so money certainly doesn’t make people any smarter!
Alte
September 21, 2011
Oh and Alte, there is a not so subtle message you send to both your man and your parents when you accept their monetary gifts.
That’s true. I guess I’m sort of spoiled. It’s just that they can cut me check for a few grand without blinking, and he has to save and save for forever for the same amount, and then I feel guilty spending it because he put so much into earning it. It’s so much easier to just take the check and write it off as “birthday money”, or whatever. They practically vomit forth cash, and it means so little to them.
I guess I’ve been pretending not to notice how much it bothered him. I stopped taking cash from them, but now I’m all about earning money on my own, to help support the family, and that bothers him just as much. Yesterday night I was standing in the bedroom and he was just staring at me and he said, “You’re too good for this house. You should be in a mansion, or something.” I didn’t really know what to say, so I said, “Baby, you may not have an Audi, but you have the chick to go with one.” That cheered him up, “Yeah, suckas!” LOL
All of his friends are wealthier than he is, too. He’s sort of in the “working class boy moving up” rut. But you’re right, I don’t have to “dress down” to prove something, or whatever. Now, for some mood music:
Svar
September 21, 2011
“working class boy moving up”
I feel for him. I’m not working class and my ancestors were always wealthy landowners(I’m the first generation to not have been born on a farm), but I really care about these three groups: the American worker, the American farmer, and the American small businessman. Those men are the back bone of the Nation. That’s why I am a 3rd Way Distributist.
terri
September 21, 2011
Alte, are you inadvertently sending the message that you’re dissatisfied with the life he’s giving you. Generally speaking, men are rarely moved by the words and thoughts of others if they are confident and secure with the life they have on its own merits.
I’m not blaming you for his insecurities so don’t take it that way, please. I have husband who feels a burden to give me things that I feel are largely unnecessary in the grand scheme. I think that’s partly just a masculine thing if a feminist mother hasn’t bred it out of him, LOL. I was talking to a friend the other day whose husband was expressing some of that same kind of pressure.
But I make a point of expressing to my husband that I am deeply appreciative of how hard he works for me, how much of a man he is to be doing for his family what many men in 2011 are unwilling to do: be the primary breadwinner. (For whatever reason so please don’t jump on me guys if your wife works.) I make sure he knows that I am thoroughly and completely satisfied with our lot in life and that I don’t need any more material crap to be happy. Most men (particularly of the “alpha” variety) are usually not dogged by demons like that if they have a woman who has made it clear in words, demeanor and actions that she is content.
Again, I’m not blaming you but I am wondering if there is something there that is plaguing him psychologically. Keeping up with the Joneses is not a alpha male kind of thing, you know? They already think they are perfectly fine the way they are thankyouverymuch, LOL. Of course, if he was raised in a family where money was always a struggle then it makes a bit more sense.
Alte
September 21, 2011
No, I don’t really care about that stuff, and I’m pretty low-maintenance. His family was relatively poor when he was young, and he always says that he doesn’t want to live like that. I didn’t want to earn money for myself, but to help him out so that he doesn’t have to work so hard. But he feels like I’m just competing with him, I think.
He works really hard and he wants to spend some of his hard-earned money on me, and I’m like, “Oh no, thanks. I don’t want anything. I’m fine. Let’s just stay home. We can’t really afford that. I don’t need that. It’s okay, I’ll just use the old one,” and then he’s disappointed. I live like his mom used to live, and that’s something he’s been working hard to avoid.
He’s been really happy with me spending more time relaxing, shopping, eating out for lunch, buying nicer food, getting my nails done, spending my evenings in bed with him rather than folding laundry, and all the decadent stuff I’ve been avoiding for nearly eight years now. It’s less that he’s trying to “keep up” than that he set his sights on “making it” years ago, and the better off I am, the closer he feels to his goal.
He can afford it now, as his income keeps increasing. I guess he wants me to be the sort of housewife that the guys in the Manosphere always bitch about, just without the pool boy. It’s hard for me to readjust, as we were broke for so many years, and I’m just stuck in that mode.
CL
September 21, 2011
This is interesting to me, because it’s not something I have experienced being from working class stock. I never had a lot and I don’t care about “stuff”. I already think I have too much stuff and often fantasise about throwing it all out, lol. When I first came back to Toronto, I had almost nothing. No desk, no table, one chair from the Goodwill, a few toys for the kids and a computer on the floor, really. Now I have all this crap I’ve accumulated in 5 years and I look at it and think “where the hell did all this come from?” And a lot of it literally came from the garbage. My desk is an old door on stands, lol – but it’s a huge desk and it rocks.
I find this focus on material gain weird, frankly. And that’s not an attack on you guys, just my perspective coming from the “poorer” end of things. And I always hated the word “poor”, because I never felt that it described my life. We may have gone without Christmas presents and things like that and sure, that wasn’t always that great, but I learned that these things are unimportant and that “stuff” is just so much dust. In that sense, I feel quite lucky. Sure I like my digital camera, iPod, cell phone and all these cool gadgets, but I don’t for a moment think I couldn’t live without them.
So yeah, that’s my working class perspective. I can see how for a man who “marries up” it might cause insecurity, especially when his wife’s parents “vomit cash”, lol. So you have to work a little harder to convince him that you don’t need to be showered with stuff, but also accept that this is how he shows you he loves you – he is, like a lot of men, service oriented, and that is a great thing for a husband.
I would tend to scrimp and save as a way to show appreciation as you do, but I have also learned to try to be more graceful in accepting gifts – something I’m still weird about because I’m not used to it, so it makes me uncomfortable. I find big shows of wealth distasteful and there’s really nothing I want anyway. A bunch of flowers that cost $5 will make me smile probably more than one that cost $50 because the latter would just make me uncomfortable. I’ve seen girls get big baskets of flowers and stuff and go all ga-ga over it and I just kind of shudder at the whole idea, lol. I’d rather have a house plant because it’ll last longer, ha ha!
Well, I never said I wasn’t weird, lol. I want one of those tiny houses when my kids are grown and left home.
http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
CL
September 21, 2011
Oh, and he should also work to appreciating the fact that you aren’t a materialistic twit who loves him for his paycheck. I think he probably knows that already, somehow, but thought I’d throw that out there too.
Alte
September 21, 2011
I’m really graceless about gifts. He used to buy me flowers, and not even very expensive ones, and I’d complain that he was wasting money. Or he’d want to take me out for dinner and I’d insist that we stay home cause it’s cheaper. I always want to wait until it comes out on DVD. I’d try on a dress he likes, see the tag, and then put it back despite his protests. He gave up buying me jewelry, flowers, chocolates, clothes, anything basically. Even if we go out to dinner, I’m checking the prices and ordering the cheapest thing.
I’ve always been very proud of my lack of materialism, to the point where I’m sort of rude about it. He’s not at all acquisitive for himself, at all. I keep having to buy him new clothes as he wears his stuff out until it’s literally falling apart at the seams, and refuses to buy anything new.
I need to work on that. It’s hard for him to think of anything nice to do for me, other than fixing appliances and things like that. He just wants to spoil me a little bit, and I’m ungrateful. I think it’s because my ex was quite wealthy and he was always buying me stuff to make up for mistreating me, and then he’d turn around and call me a golddigger, so I have a strong negative association with presents. And my parents were always working and then they’d throw money at me to shut me up about wishing they were home more. I’m always like, “I don’t want your money. You can’t buy my love. I don’t care about material things,” etc., like I still have something to prove.
But I don’t really have anything to prove with him. I can accept his presents. I can go shopping and get my nails done, and the sky isn’t going to fall.
CL
September 21, 2011
Yeah, I have to work on that a bit myself. I am truly not concerned with gifts, but men like to give gifts to women. I can barely bring myself to say thank you, lol. My in-laws are fairly wealthy and they’d buy me a bunch of crap I didn’t want for Christmas and it made me so uncomfortable! They still send me birthday money and I never know what to do with it. One year I spent all my birthday money on toys for the kids and socks and underwear for my husband, lol. I’m a recovering miser. Must be the Scottish blood!
Alte
September 21, 2011
He just likes to be generous with me. He likes that he now can say, “Yes, go ahead and buy the dress. It’ll look nice on you.” or “If you’re tired, we can just order in dinner.” or something. But I’m like, “OMG, what a waste of money! Yes, I’m crying tears of exhaustion, but I’m going to drag myself over to the stove and whip something up.” And then I think he thinks, “Why do I work so hard if she doesn’t appreciate the little luxuries I can give her?”
And, of course, there’s the internet Frugal Fraternity constantly bitching about spendthrift housewives and golddiggers. It’s like “keeping up with the Joneses” in reverse.
terri
September 21, 2011
it’s not something I have experienced being from working class stock. I never had a lot and I don’t care about “stuff”. I already think I have too much stuff and often fantasise about throwing it all out, lol.
I could’ve written that, right down to the fantasies about throwing things out.
And that’s not an attack on you guys, just my perspective coming from the “poorer” end of things. And I always hated the word “poor”, because I never felt that it described my life.
What is considered “poor” these days is really astonishing to me to tell you the truth. I came from lower working class stock, too. My daddy hung off the back of a garbage truck for more than 30 years but we never went without anything. We were also never spoiled and I’m thankful for it. He saved his money, invested well and now at 80 and in excellent health has no need to lean on his kid for any financial support. In fact some of my less ambitious siblings tend to lean on him (bear in mind that I’m the second youngest at 40, LOL).
Westerners are insanely materialistic and I understand how we got to be that way. My husband came from a family that didn’t have any more than the family I grew up in but his parents believed in splurging with their disposable income. So he definitely has more of a desire for a few of the “extras.” But even he looks at the current economic and political climate and appreciates that we might do well to wrap our minds around the possibility of living on a WHOLE lot less in the near future.
So you have to work a little harder to convince him that you don’t need to be showered with stuff, but also accept that this is how he shows you he loves you
When my husband gives me gifts he ignores the expense and I really had to get used to it at first. My natural inclination was to fret about how much he spent. But I don’t do that anymore. I just let him love me. Of course, my husband likes having a useful bride and if I went too far off the deep end with a relaxed approach to spending he’d straighten me out and right quick! As much as he chides me about being cheap he also appreciates that I’m not like many of his friends and co-workers’ wives who seem not to mind spending their man into the poorhouse.
Alte
September 21, 2011
As much as he chides me about being cheap he also appreciates that I’m not like many of his friends and co-workers’ wives who seem not to mind spending their man into the poorhouse.
This. Same here.
terri
September 21, 2011
He used to buy me flowers, and not even very expensive ones, and I’d complain that he was wasting money. Or he’d want to take me out for dinner and I’d insist that we stay home cause it’s cheaper. I always want to wait until it comes out on DVD. I’d try on a dress he likes, see the tag, and then put it back despite his protests. He gave up buying me jewelry, flowers, chocolates, clothes, anything basically. Even if we go out to dinner, I’m checking the prices and ordering the cheapest thing.
Oh, goodness! I’m bad, but I’m not THAT bad. I can see why your husband gets a little perturbed.
Alte
September 21, 2011
It’s hard for me sometimes, as a housewife. I worry that I’m a financial burden on him, so I just try to stay as cheap as possible. But I guess I’m punishing him for some other guy’s sins, which isn’t really fair. I guess it’s sort of passive-aggressive. I’m such a hard woman.
I’m good at turning virtues into vices, I suppose. I just overdo everything. Too much of a good thing is still too much.
Alte
September 21, 2011
Now I feel guilty. LOL Wasn’t this all starting out with “Alte’s husband is such a jerk because…”?
CL
September 21, 2011
What is considered “poor” these days is really astonishing to me to tell you the truth.
This. It’s ridiculous really. Overuse of the word “poverty” bugs me too.
Now I feel guilty. LOL Wasn’t this all starting out with “Alte’s husband is such a jerk because…”?
Isn’t it good to get some perspective?
Stadt-Land-Fluss
September 21, 2011
““Alte’s husband is such a jerk because…”?”
…he has to be, for his self-assertion against his high-maintenance wife.
terri
September 21, 2011
Wasn’t this all starting out with “Alte’s husband is such a jerk because…”?
Was it? Because I thought this thread started out because you wanted to wear a burqua. And I agreed with your husband 100% on principle if not 100% in taste. Some of the stuff you were wearing was ridiculous, LOL.
And until you spelled out how annoyingly money fearful you are, I admit I thought your husband sounded like a competitive materialistic man consumed with measuring up to people who for all he knows might be up to their eyeballs in debt.
Now I see that he has a lovely wife who won’t even let him buy her a gift. Taking all that into consideration leads me to believe that you guys could find a balance. If you’d relax a little bit and let him do nice things for you sometimes he would be more understanding of the instances when you have valid reasons for wanting to cut back.
CL
September 21, 2011
I have to say, I really like where this thread has gone. I hope you guys find some balance with this, as Terri says.
Well, my work here is done!
David Alexander
September 21, 2011
He’s sort of in the “working class boy moving up” rut.
Admittedly, that’s the vibe I’ve gotten from what you described of him. As I said, up here, he’d be one of those ethnic whites who was the first to attend college.
I think it’s sometimes hard on men to marry a wealthier woman.
Definitely because despite years of feminism, it’s still ingrained in many men that they do have to be able to provide the majority of their family’s income, and so when you’re a prole male dating an upper middle class girl, and her living standards are subsidized by her parents, there’s a sensation that you’ve failed and that you don’t have the respect of her family.
Oh and Alte, there is a not so subtle message you send to both your man and your parents when you accept their monetary gits.
It’s one thing if you’re getting $100 here and there. It’s another when it’s $10K checks. The former constitutes gifts, while the latter looks like a massive subsidy. I suspect he may feel better if you didn’t work, and they gave non-cash gifts instead.
they seem to think I’m rich.
My nephew presumed the same thing about my dad and our current situation until we explained things to him. It still didn’t prevent his mother from trying to hit us up for $200 sneakers. Let’s just say that I don’t have many nice things to say about her, especially after she decided to seek blood from the stone known as my older unemployed brother…
Alte
September 21, 2011
Well, you know they cut us a $20K check a few months ago, to help pay for the renovations. He finally cashed it, but the money’s just sitting in our account. That’s when I told them not to give us any more money. He really doesn’t like that.
He’s agreed to the working because it cuts down on my mandatory volunteer hours at the school.