Topics for discussion: What is gossip? Is it all talk about persons not present? Is it talk about persons not present that is negative? Does it have to be untrue to be gossip? Is all conjecture about others gossip? Opinion sharing? Where is the line?
I was talking with one of my peripheral friends once, and mentioned that gossip was a sin, and she didn’t believe me! That blew my mind. She was an attendee at a mainline protestant church, and had been, and was still, and was active in the church community… and she had never learned that gossip was a sin. Scripture is very clear that gossip is sinful (1).
Words are powerful. Confession with the lips is part of conversion(2). Words can manipulate reality. How we choose to speak about others can create opinions in those who have never met the ones being spoken of. What comes out of our mouths reveals the contents of our hearts (3).
Ideally, we would all be concerned primarily with the tasks in front of us in this moment(4), and when not concerned with the work in front of us, would be contemplating things lovely and pure(5). This, however, leaves one with very little conversation. Women use conversation and commiseration to build community. How do you build community without talking about the members of the community to other members? Must one stick with “just the facts”? Is even positive talk about persons not present, when it steps into the realm of opinion/conclusions based on observations, inherently sinful? Are there circumstances in which this is justified, say between a man and wife? If sinful, how do you form a united front without sinning?
And while we are discussing the proper use of words, what are your thoughts on Colossians 4:6? (Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.)
Relevant scripture (in part, this being a rich area of study):
(1) James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
James 3:5-10 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
(2) Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(3) Matthew 12:35 -37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
(4) Ephesians 4:28-29 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
(5) Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Hearthrose/Hearthie
November 8, 2011
Procedural comment: I am Hearthrose *everywhere* online… but it was taken for WordPress. Couldn’t find the blog attached to the name, likewise “Hearth”. So I am using Hearthie as my WordPress name. No deceit or disguise is implied/intended.
terri
November 8, 2011
Is it all talk about persons not present?
No, if you’re saying nice things about a person I can guarantee you that don’t think they’re being gossiped about
Is it talk about persons not present that is negative?
Yes, I’d say almost always this is the case.
Does it have to be untrue to be gossip?
No, it doesn’t have to be untrue to be gossip. If it’s untrue it qualifies as a lie or a rumor, but gossip can most certainly be true.
And while we are discussing the proper use of words, what are your thoughts on Colossians 4:6? (Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.)
The Internet provides constant temptation to violate this one. I fail at it often. Failed yesterday, :( . Well partly. My comments were definitely salty, but lacked the balancing grace, LOL.
Matt
November 8, 2011
Is the purpose of the talk to inform the person being talked with, or to bring into disrepute the person being talked about?
Would the person being told benefit from knowing? Would they potentially come to harm by _not_ knowing?
Are you talking because you want to help others, or because you enjoy gossip? (Doing something because you enjoy it is not necessarily a sin. But when confronting a behavior that might or might not, objectively, be sinful, it’s worth examining your own motives very closely.)
Then, of course, there’s the old joke: “No, I don’t gossip. But let me tell you all about my friend who does!”
Alte
November 8, 2011
Catechism on gossip and similar offenses:
The Catechism references:
Prov 25:9-10
and Sirach 21:28
terri
November 8, 2011
Alte, do you realize how often we fall short of this one every day in the blogsphere? Ouch, ouch ouch!
As I am not Catholic, obviously I haven’t ever seen it but from what I can gather, it lines up pretty well Scripture’s admonitions concerning speech and how we view others and their intentions.
Alte
November 8, 2011
Yeah, reading it is awfully sobering. It’s like… really? No, I’m serious. Really? Are you sure? Like, really sure? LOL
the cottage child
November 8, 2011
My husbands rule is this (I default to his rule as it’s more rigid than my own, though I’m pretty firm on it myself): if it’s not something you’re willing to say to the subjects face, it’s gossip, and even merely listening to gossip is gossiping. His stance is the high ground, but informed by professional necessity and its served both of us very well in two industries that are rife with the stuff. Like people getting divorced and ending lifelong friendships it gets so ridiculous (even that’s tinged with gossip, lol)
I slip, too frequently, in laws are a weakness, but mostly I’m guilty of gossiping about people I don’t even know – for example, Lindsay Lohan looks like she’s high on crack. A) I don’t know her and it’s none of my business, B) no good comes of my repeating it, and C) no, I likely wouldn’t say it to her face. She has no idea who I am, never will, could care less what I think – but repeating disparaging remarks, even if they are true (which I can’t possibly know), serves no purpose – it is merely idle.
Alte
November 8, 2011
2480 covers the “You go girl!” stuff.
Alte
November 8, 2011
I think about 1/3 of what I say must be some sort of malicious speech. Luckily, I don’t talk much IRL, but online is another story. Geez.
the cottage child
November 8, 2011
And here’s a conundrum, an example the danger of gossip, and to tell the story I basically have to gossip: an elderly man in our neighborhood was accused, years ago, of doing something untoward with a child – that is all the information we have. No facts, no details, no evidence. He was never formally charged, nor questioned, certainly not convicted by any governing authority, yet there is a parent in our neighborhood who INSISTS that he did it, just on the game of telephone that fed her the information. My husband has no tolerance for such things, so he told this woman in no uncertain terms to not repeat the information unless she had some evidence and was prepared to call the police, otherwise it was gossip.
a) neighbor is a gossip
b) old man is disparaged
c) even if the allegations are true, the truth is obfuscated by the diminished credibility of the gossiping neighbor
It’s kind of like Herman Cain’s current accuser – I might believe her story, things like that were known to happen in that era and in that industry in particular, but her choice of means of delivering the information diminishes her credibility. She has chosen to reduce her attack, if it did in fact take place, from a criminal activity to simple gossip.
Alte
November 8, 2011
Gossips hurt their own reputation: Obama And Sarkozy Caught Bashing Netanyahu On Hot Mic Hot mics always pick up on gossip. It’s like natural law.
Joy
November 8, 2011
“if it’s not something you’re willing to say to the subjects face, it’s gossip, and even merely listening to gossip is gossiping. ”
This. I agree with your husband, CC.
Alte, I also agree with 2480 from your catechism. Flattery is a different animal than a sincere compliment and, in reality, does not help the other person except to inflate their ego.
We are learning the Westminster Shorter Catechism and have recently been doing the 9th commandment.
“Q. 77. What is required in the ninth commandment?
A. The ninth commandment requireth the maintaining and promoting of truth between man and man, and of our own and our neighbor’s good name,especially in witness-bearing.
Q. 78. What is forbidden in the ninth commandment?
A. The ninth commandment forbiddeth whatsoever is prejudicial to truth, or injurious to our own, or our neighbor’s, good name.”
The children and I discussed how gossip is breaking this commandment because it is usually injuring our neighbor’s name through supposition and/or speaking of things behind his or her back.
Stewart Griffin
November 8, 2011
Alte
November 8, 2011
My mind is apparently precisely average then.
Alte
November 8, 2011
— Service announcement —
Not trying to brag, but have you guys realized that we’re now the #1 hit if you Google “traditional Christianity”? My old blog is the #1 hit under “traditional Catholicism”, as well. We even beat out the Wikepedia entries. Long comment threads, FTW.
Because of the higher visibility we have now, and the increase in Google-driven traffic we’ve been experiencing, I would strongly encourage anyone still posting under their real-life names to change to a pseudonym. If you see anyone’s handle change soon, that’ll be the reason for it.
Thanks.
— And now, return to your regularly-scheduled program —
Cinarnation
November 8, 2011
Well! I started using my real name (Erin) because I felt weird using a pseudonym, like it could make it really easy to be dishonest. But then I felt weird because nobody knew I was the same as Cinarnation and I didn’t know how to announce that we are the same person. And now you’re telling me to go back to being dishonest. And on a Christian site, too! I can’t WAIT to tell my girlfriends ;-D
Alte
November 8, 2011
I actually prefer pseudonyms as I don’t relish the thought of someone’s ex-wife or angry ex-best-friend or employer or whatever showing up here and trolling. A bit of chit-chat is okay and in keeping with the general tone, but I don’t want some Baby Mamma Drama ruining the threads.
Magistra
November 8, 2011
Great quote, Stewart. I prefer to be a great mind, whenever possible, and try to avoid “small” but end up being average most of the time. Ok, Alte. I’ve picked up a pseudonym.
Alte
November 8, 2011
Love it! :-)
laceagate
November 8, 2011
I would go so far to say that purposefully divulging private information to another person about someone you know is gossip. The information is meant to be shared with you and you alone, and it should not matter if you trust another person in your life. That does not grant you the privilege of breaking confidence.
Gossip not only hurts a person’s character, but it can break a person’s trust.
Cinarnation
November 8, 2011
Personally, I hope motive examination is the best check on gossip in my life. I sometimes have conversations that seem close to gossip to me. A couple friends and I are involved in the imploding lives of a few families. One of their husbands is the head of the rescue mission, the other is a police chaplain, and our gifting (mercy) puts people in our way who are often in dire need emotionally or circumstantially. We minister to the women in these situations. We could not do it if we didn’t sometimes discuss the actions, which are often quite ugly, of the people involved. Our motive is to come to an agreement on the best advice to offer the lady in need and to understand the personal spiritual damage of the individuals involved so we know how to speak in a way they can hear. I have sometimes wondered if this falls into that category, but I don’t think it does. We are willing the good of these people, grieving over the damage they’ve suffered and the damage they’re inflicting, and asking God to use us as His hands. I’m not sure how we could meet their needs if we didn’t discuss them. On the other hand, in different circumstances than above, I know exactly that frisson of delight that comes with uncovering another’s sin and I’m ashamed of myself when I go there. I try to use motive and need to know as my basis for whether something is gossip.
Matt
November 8, 2011
Meh. Google is everywhere. Nothing posted openly on the internet is ever truly private again. No ex-wives, and even my ex-girlfriend seems disinclined to promote drama, now that I’m safely married and permanently unavailable to her. Plus, it’s not like there’s a shortage of guys named “Matt” on the intarwebz. :)
Alte
November 8, 2011
“Matt” isn’t so bad. Some people are using their last names though.
Also, there’s just not much point in using your real name in blogs. If you want someone in particular to know your real name, you can always email them or friend them, and chat elsewhere. That’s what we do.
joanna
November 8, 2011
I find that the “prayer chain” is often used as a means of gossiping. “Hey Maude, I just called to tell you that Jane’s husband has been diagnosed with genital herpes. Would you pray for his healing please.”
I try not to get involved in the prayer chain thing. If someone comes to me privately to ask for prayer, I’m good with that.
Elspeth
November 8, 2011
The toes don’t lie, LOL. It’s me.
The new name is translated, “Chosen by God.” I think it’s pretty.
And yes Joanna. I agree with you 100% on the phony prayer requests.
Pujkeko
November 8, 2011
Alte — question. I have a fairly unusual handle (pukeko) and a fairly common name (Chris).
And it is very easy to work out who I am from my blog, which remains nicely obscure…
Which is less revealing? Note that there are only two people in my town (120 000) with my exact job description: locally I am more visible than I really like to be.
(Which is another reason I don’t date. Gossip).
Hearthrose/Hearthie
November 8, 2011
You can find out my real name without a lot of work… but my nomme de internet is pretty well set. When I google, about 95% of the “Hearthroses” are me. The Israeli magazine and I are not affiliated. -lol-
Anyway all the crazy ex-girlfriends/boyfriends know where we live, our home phone number, and most of them were at the wedding. ;) *I* worry more about “Snake” getting out of jail and deciding that I was the one who called the SWAT team on him, or one of the parolees following me home. Not so worried about internet people.
Gossip is a nasty one for me, which is why I wrote the topic. I could care less what Lindsey Lohan is doing today – I might care what she’s WEARING, but I don’t care what she’s doing. But I do use my words to shape reality more than I should. I **love** what Cinarnation said above about motivation, that’s great. In what I write on the ‘net I try to be scrupulous to not play the game.
But maybe that’s because online (and one of the reasons I keep a consistent internet name) I am hyper-conscious of my witness and my consistency. I don’t want to cause someone to stumble, and it’s easier to control what you say when it goes through your fingers and you have a choice to hit “comment” or not. The number of replies I’ve typed out and then surfed away from so I wouldn’t hit comment is probably a little scary.
Y’all actually WANT to talk about ideas (gimmegimmegimme!) whereas that tends to be harder to find IRL.
Elspeth
November 8, 2011
You can find out my real name without a lot of work… but my nomme de internet is pretty well set.
Yes, my name is pretty well set, too. I’m wondering if I won’t just go back to my given name and let the chips fall. I try to be careful not to talk about anyone online but myself and my life.
Not sure how a new name after 5 years is gonna go over. Of course, my blog has never gotten as much traffic as this one does and that’s the only reason I considered the switch. But I’ve never said anything about anyone that I’d be ashamed to repeat.
the cottage child
November 8, 2011
The screen name thing bugs me – like I can hide. I tell everyone where I’m from and what I do – helloooo? But I’m thinking about changing it anyway, maybe MWM style, to see if y’all can guess who I am on a given day. I have a very exciting life, see.
the tree lady
November 8, 2011
What if I become…The Tree Lady.
I have absolutely no idea why.
Alte
November 8, 2011
And it is very easy to work out who I am from my blog, which remains nicely obscure…
Not so obscure. You linked to us so often that you show up right below us on Google. It’s mostly about preventing people from randomly Googling your name.
the cottage child
November 8, 2011
Elspeth reminds me of Dragonslayer. It was our (me and my two bffs) consolation prize when our parents declared Excalibur Ex-rated. We were total nerdlettes – “we see dragon movies and ride horses”. Headgear, anyone?
David Collard
November 8, 2011
I read an old pamphlet or tract on gossip years ago, which gave me quite a scare. I am very careful not to pass on things I hear or listen to gossip. Sometimes I say that I don’t want to hear something if I shouldn’t know.
St Philip Neri’s famous penance for gossip:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/philosophy/ph0029.htm
Cecil Harvey
November 8, 2011
Yeah… the rector at my parish did a sermon on detraction a few months ago. Before then, he did one on complaining. I’ve been trying to take both more serious since then. The complaining one is harder for me, particularly at work. There’s just so much here that’s… terrible. And I’m around countless others that do the same.
Cecil Harvey
November 8, 2011
Also, Elspeth is a fantastic powerhouse in a game I play from time to time:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=217825&type=card
Cinarnation
November 8, 2011
Okay, so does anybody have suggestions for nipping it in the bud? Because it’s bad at my church and co-op – really, really bad, and I keep coming home wishing I’d just stuck to my husband like glue so I didn’t end up listening and participating in yet another, “you won’t believe what she did,” and wanting to wash my mouth and ears out with soap once I got home. How to graciously turn the subject? I don’t want to be condemning; it’s all too easy to get caught up in it, but I don’t want to keep repenting – I want to stop! My attempts to bring up reasons for the gossip victim acting the way she does often go nowhere and that’s my best guess for a response. I am not the personality to rebuke, so that’s a no-go. It’s to the point where I basically go, worship or teach, and go home. We just got involved in a small church after not going for quite awhile and it’s about to do me in. I’ve become the ultimate antisocial person and people are talking about that now.
CAB
November 8, 2011
@Cecil Harvey: I approve of your handle.
Matt
November 8, 2011
“Okay, so does anybody have suggestions for nipping it in the bud? Because it’s bad at my church and co-op – really, really bad, and I keep coming home wishing I’d just stuck to my husband like glue so I didn’t end up listening and participating in yet another”
Um…do you actually need for us to give you an answer? Because it sounds like you’ve already found an excellent one.
In case it’s not already obvious, I’d suggest “don’t spend your time associating socially with people who are prone to gossip”.
Hearthrose/Hearthie
November 8, 2011
Cinarnation: I think the only solution, short of avoidance, is having something terribly interesting of your own to talk about. Possibly Little Freddy has caught chickenpox, and you need everyone to chime in with helpful hints to make him feel better?
Clarence
November 8, 2011
For the enjoyment of everyone here:
Chris
November 9, 2011
You. Are. Joking. I only get 90 odd views on an average day.
I have just spend a half hour in wordpress disconnecting me from the plugins that share with twitter etc.
(And the reason I link with you is that there are thing said there that are too good not to comment on).
Chris
November 9, 2011
On gossip…
Not sure if this will work.
In team meeting. Situation was a man had suicidal thoughts after wife left him. Messy separation. (this happens a couple of times a month.
Typist says “Well he probably deserved it”/
Me “THATS INAPPROPRIATE. Hold eye contact. Silent.
Typist. “Sorry…. ”
Me. “Thank you”. Back onto topic.
Of course, I can imitate a silverback gorilla, and lead the team. Sometimes you have to use your power and set a line.
Elspeth
November 9, 2011
What if I become…The Tree Lady.
I have absolutely no idea why.
Well you’ve done a beautiful job with that lemon tree in your back yard. It fits, LOL.
the tree lady
November 9, 2011
Oh yeah, I forgot about the lemon tree. HA! And my avatar/Gravatar is a tree with birds on it. That’s funny.
Alte
November 9, 2011
I thought you chose it because of your gravatar. That is funny.
the tree lady
November 9, 2011
I looked out my window and the first thing I saw was a tree…
My imagination is just astounding, I know.
Stadt-Land-Fluss
November 9, 2011
“I looked out my window and the first thing I saw was a tree…”
Good, that you don’t live next to a dumpsite… :D
the tree lady
November 9, 2011
LOL
Alte
November 9, 2011
Warning to readers: Please be very careful of whom you expose your private information to (name, address, phone number, etc.) There are people of low character — yes, even in the Church — who are not above publishing your information online, and bringing potential harm to yourself and to your family, in retaliation for an online argument.
Anyone who publishes, or threatens to publish, someone else’s private information online will no longer be welcome at TC, and they will be named on here so that our readers can be wary of them. If you ever see such an “outing” happen elsewhere, please bring it to our attention.
We do what we can to keep your private data private, so please help us out by being cautious yourselves.
Chris
November 9, 2011
Go Alte!
(and ladies, people can and do hack email as well)
Alte
November 9, 2011
Yes, this is true, but it is most dangerous to exchange information with someone, such as through email or Facebook. I’ve added the warning to the About page.
Elspeth
November 9, 2011
We do what we can to keep your private data private, so please help us out by being cautious yourselves.
I second this. And while it is becoming virtually impossible to remain completely anonymous when some tech savvy person is determined to rat you out, but here are a few of the things I do to guard my privacy:
1. Skip Facebook. I know it’s popular, but it’s just one of those things that no matter how much you don’t intend to get sucked into, you do. People reveal more there than they ever do on blogs. And this is why I am not of Facebook.
2. Have an blog related email address that is totally separate from your personal email.
3. This is one that I’ve dropped the ball on already, but use a screen name that is different from your given name. I go back and forth on this because I hate feeling like I’m trying to hide something, but I’ve thought about it and concluded that it’s just better for me to cease and desist using my own name. We say some politically incorrect stuff around here and we step on the toes of people who have more time to stew and scheme. Better safe than sorry.
Sylva
November 9, 2011
Maybe I should change it to Sylva…I’m not liking Tree Lady.
Thanks for the warning and tips.
David Alexander
November 9, 2011
but I don’t want some Baby Mamma Drama ruining the threads.
Somehow, Baby Mamma Drama and traditionalism don’t mix unless you’re a polygamist. :-)
As for my pseudonym, it’s actually the fake name I tend to hand out in real life when I don’t want people to know my real name or bother manhandling it. It sounds “white”, can be pronounced in French, excellent names for a potential son and in the case of the surname, a daughter. In the stone ages, I’d post with my real name, but that was back when I was teenager on roadgeek boards. My name is a bit too unique to get away with saying that’s another person.
And yes, I’m still away from home, but this time in Vancouver. :-)
David Alexander
November 9, 2011
We do what we can to keep your private data private, so please help us out by being cautious yourselves.
One of my mottos: State secrets will die with the state. :-)
Alte
November 9, 2011
If only everyone felt that way, DA.
laceagate
November 9, 2011
It is also gossip to speak badly of others yet not have the nerve to address whatever issue you have with them DIRECTLY.
Cinarnation
November 9, 2011
“not have the nerve to address whatever issue you have with them DIRECTLY.”
This is because it’s not “nice” to directly address offenses.
Alte
November 9, 2011
We’ve made the mistake of addressing people directly recently, and have come under attack for it. We are real people with families, not just blog personas, so we just don’t want to waste our time being vilified online. These conversations are meant to be edifying and enriching, and being dragged through the mud by your own readership is neither.
the cottage child
November 9, 2011
This is because it’s not “nice” to directly address offenses.
Exactly – we must couch our passive aggression as “speaking the truth in luuuuv”.
Alte
November 9, 2011
I don’t think anyone even bothers to pretend that any more, CC.
Chris
November 9, 2011
We’ve made the mistake of addressing people directly recently, and have come under attack for it. We are real people with families, not just blog personas, so we just don’t want to waste our time being vilified online. These conversations are meant to be edifying and enriching, and being dragged through the mud by your own readership is neither.
Yes… and this is where we run into problems, because there are both men and women s rights activists with axes ground and a hair-trigger offense reaction. It’s one of the reasons that I try to email some things rather than comment on them here.
I try to talk in general principles… but then people get hurt. Particularly people who are foolish and will not accept correction.
My solution is generally to treat people who act like two year-olds as two year-olds: not give them any options and institute a routine that keeps them busy and away from me. I use low contact methods such as email. They get kicked out of google plus. (I’m not on FB) and if needed I ban them.
What I’d plead is that we don’t step back from talking truth here, even if at times it is about bread and shoes (us guys will go and have a beer elsewhere and let you girls go to town on those threads).
Alte
November 9, 2011
It doesn’t really seem worth taking the abuse anymore. I don’t really have much of an axe to grind, and I was hoping this blog would be more like a club where we could discuss things with like-minded people and polite dissenters without having to deal with the mud-slinging that goes on in the rest of the blogosphere. That I’d be pouring my heart out to people who don’t actually like me very much was never my intent.
I’ve taken this all rather hard and I think I will stop writing now. I put a lot of effort into this, but I’ve just set myself up to be ridiculed and sniped at from the various peanut galleries.
Stewart
November 9, 2011
I have clearly missed something. What has been going on?
laceagate
November 9, 2011
What I’d plead is that we don’t step back from talking truth here, even if at times it is about bread and shoes (us guys will go and have a beer elsewhere and let you girls go to town on those threads).
I agree with this completely, and I would not blame anyone who decided to take a break or indefinitely leave writing because of the petty and ridiculous abuse out there.
It seems that for some it is easier on their consciences to pretend to be ambiguous while attacking, while making it known who they are attacking. To me this is one of the worst kinds of psychological abuse. If you had an issue with the person, email them and be civil if doing so is not possible publicly. That applies to whether the petty behavior is happening on this blog or on a different one.
For all who’s reading this, using the excuse, “but you should know” is a lame cop-out for not taking responsibility and accountability for what you say.
Magistra
November 9, 2011
“What I’d plead is that we don’t step back from talking truth here, even if at times it is about bread and shoes (us guys will go and have a beer elsewhere and let you girls go to town on those threads).”
I agree with this, too. I appreciate that we can discuss truth here. I’d hate for that to disappear, even if it is about the mundane at times. Mundane things are part of daily life and so need discussing sometimes, too.
Alte
November 9, 2011
Stewart,
We’ve just become the subject for a diverse number of negative posts and comments elsewhere, by people who have commented here in the past, or whose writing we have promoted. We are rather discouraged by the Team Woman pogrom going on in this section of the blogosphere right now, and we’re really not up to engaging in that sort of civil war. We are, after all, a bunch of homemakers, and not marines.
Morticia has quit and I think I might join her. I come on here to discuss, not to fight with people. I was trying to move on and get back to discussing topics that interest me, but the pushback has been too distracting.
the cottage child
November 9, 2011
Haters gonna hate, what can you do? I wouldn’t let that discourage you from doing this if you want to. Obvious trolls obviously get bored and go back to sleep under their bridges. Butthurt trolls thrash about a bit more, but they are eventually distracted by something shiny and will be quiet soon enough.
David Alexander
November 9, 2011
I was trying to move on and get back to discussing topics that interest me
One could argue that if you quit, you may end up proving the MRA types that they’re right about women…
Plus, admittedly, I think you shouldn’t let these men take away your intellectual and social outlet away from you. You don’t have to fight them, but you can ignore them and not submit to their taunts. :-)
Magistra
November 9, 2011
I’m sorry to hear you might quit, Alte. I always enjoy the discussions here but I’m able to stay in the background so I don’t get the kind of flak you do.
laceagate
November 9, 2011
Obvious trolls obviously get bored and go back to sleep under their bridges. Butthurt trolls thrash about a bit more, but they are eventually distracted by something shiny and will be quiet soon enough.
LOL.
You forgot about the lobotomized trolls.
Chris
November 9, 2011
Grerp, I miss you and Morticia when they are not commenting.
It seems that when sites like this get to a certain size the pushback comes in really hard. Andall three of you — on form — are not only truthful but witty.
We don’t hear much from Hestia any more and Grerp has taken long breaks. There are enough of us around to keep the site going… a bit like Ferd does at IMF, where he takes tlme off and lets others write.
But you all are doing good.
Stewart
November 9, 2011
I hope you do not quit.
David might be right about just ignoring them. I do not have a clue who these people are and have no idea what is being said about you so clearly it is possible to avoid them.
Plus, why let them win? You are doing good here and to see it all end would be a shame.
Alte
November 9, 2011
The problem is that this place is supposed to be my break from stress and not the cause of it. I don’t come on here for a shit-storm, or to have people throw rocks at me from the sidelines, but to have an interesting conversation with people I enjoy conversing with.
Hestia stopped blogging when she started being harassed. That’s the reason most bloggers quit, which is why harassment is so pervasive. It’s much easier to harass or threaten someone than to win a rhetorical argument.
Stewart
November 9, 2011
Can you avoid the stress by simply not reading these sites that attack you? The ‘ignorance is bliss’ strategy.
Alte
November 9, 2011
That’s what I was trying to do, but I got sucked in over a third party. And now that I’ve read so much nastiness and mean-spiritedness, I’m just discouraged. This site actually sucks up hours of my time every day, including at least an hour just administration, so it takes a lot of motivation to keep up the effort.
laceagate
November 9, 2011
I think we need to decide that if we (contributors) who are still interested in being active, set some boundaries that we can abide by personally. I won’t blame anyone who just wants to step back.
Alte, just take a break.
Alte
November 9, 2011
Okay then, I’m stepping back. I need a break and to get out of the line of attack for a while. Good night, y’all.
laceagate
November 9, 2011
Tomorrow’s a new day, folks. ‘Nite.
Stewart
November 9, 2011
Yeah, I guess it is easy to get sucked into reading what other people are saying about you.
I find that very easy to believe. Number one ‘Traditional Christianity’ site on Google does not happen out of nowhere (well done, by the way).
What administration tasks are soaking up the time? Comment moderation? Can you try enlisting some of your regular readers to help out?
Alte
November 9, 2011
Scheduling, writing, linking, formatting, etc. Lots of piddly stuff that gives this place a more polished air.
Okay, I’m giving Lacey moderator abilities for while I’m gone because it’s too much for Terri to do alone and Morticia is gone. And I’m taking Chris’ advice to shut all threads down automatically within 48 hours of their posting, so that you don’t have to deal with a bunch of different threads.
hearthie
November 9, 2011
((hugs)) Alte.
I have **no** idea what’s going on… I think that’s probably best, but I’m sad that you’re being harassed. :(
David Alexander
November 9, 2011
((hugs)) Alte.
I’ll second that. Feel better Alte! I’ll miss you…
Chris
November 10, 2011
Folks, Alte and her friends have been getting a lot of flack elsewhere.
I can’t (hug) Alte, because that would moving into creepy church geezer mode, but she, Terri and all have my best wishes.
Lizzie
November 10, 2011
Alte, Terri, Morticia, I’ve been a lurker here and at Trad Cath for a long time and I, and I’m sure many other lurkers, really feel for you in what you’ve had to deal with the past few weeks. There is so much I want to tell you about how much I’ve learnt from each of you and how it’s helped in my relationship with my fiance and how I think about the world. But mostly, I’ve come to care for you all of you guys and some of the commenters as well. Just wanted you to know that! God bless you all!
Elspeth
November 10, 2011
I kind of hate that I didn’t get the message a little sooner. Not that I considered anyone in the blogosphere my friends (excepting those of you I’ve had personal dealings with of course), but my default position is one of giving the benefit of the doubt and not requiring 100% agreement with everything I think in order to believe someone is operating in good faith. After all, the picture we have of the people we interact with in the blogosphere is pretty one dimensional. Why would I take any of this personally?
But then I look and there are people who are clearly taking things personally and are on the attack even as they claim that they aren’t taking things personally. And as is my nature, I make the attempt to engage (on the basis of past good faith) and see where the problem is. Why can’t there just be disagreement without malicious intent assigned? I guess that’s my flawed female logic not allowing me to *get it.* I’m afraid I contributed to much of this with my refusal to shake the dust from my feet and move on, just doing what we do here. Attacks on ideas I understand completely. Flame wars and attacks on people? I do not.
I think I underestimated the magnitude of what we’ve done here and as a result of not invoking my right to remain silent I added to Alte’s increasing stress. I only hope I am capable of keeping this place running at least on a nominal level while she regroups. She’s the one who keeps things interesting around here and I harbor no illusion about my ability to be as entertaining as she is.
Oh and guys, I have no clue how to decipher economics and economic indicator news. So if anyone feels inclined to contribute that kind of thing, please, please feel free to do so. My default topics are homemaking, parenting, marriage and the Bible and that just isn’t enough to keep the ship afloat.
Alte
November 10, 2011
Thanks guys, I just need a break for a while. Things are very hectic (but pleasant) at home and I don’t really have the nerves for this additional stress right now. I’m going to continue to contribute my book review posts and I’ll be back commenting after the holiday season.
I think it’s good if I’m off the radar for a while, so that everything can cool down.
the cottage child
November 10, 2011
Elspeth, I think you’ve nailed it – when we were discussing “those who will not be satisfied” the other day, it kind of opened my eyes a little. Having friends IRL with diverse political views (radical, even) who manage sincere exchanges of ideas have spoiled me. I find some of the criticisms of Alte/Terri/Morticia and company ironic, lets say, for purposes of polite conversation.